Welcome And Guest Background

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Oates, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the AI feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what's actually happening in your restaurant and exactly how to improve while driving revenue. Learn more at ovationup.com. And today I am so excited because we have someone who has been in this industry for years. I mean, we're talking, we're coming up on 35 years that you've been in the hospitality industry, Bruce, and Outback, Taco Mac, and now he's at Vui's Kitchen. He's been doing incredible things and really focused around the turnaround of restaurants and how do you improve the guest experience and coordinate the teams and launch new items and build new brands and restaurants. And so I'm really excited to have Bruce Du Sett with us here. Bruce, welcome to the podcast. Hey, you're welcome, man. Thanks for having me. And you've had quite a career in the hospitality industry. And so talk to us about that jump from big corporate, we're working with Outback to then working with a smaller brand, to then working with a smaller brand. And you've kind of like been able to be successful at all these different sizes from a few locations to right now. You're running two brands of a few locations to a bigger location to something as big as Outback. Talk to us around what are the things that are the same working with bigger brands to smaller brands, and what are the things that you find to be a little different?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

That's

Big Brands Versus Small Brands

SPEAKER_01 1:47

a great question. And to that point, I think the similarities are very much the same. I think it comes down to people. I think the customers, they appreciate the feel of hospitality, regardless if it's a big corporation, it's a little mom and pop, but the people, I've always been fortunate to have really, really good people, whether it's managers, servers, cashiers, cooks. Finding that out early on in my career was huge. I had really good mentors that told me, say, you know, you're only going to go as far as your people. Then stepping from GM proprietor to multi-unit, it's even more important. I mean, when you're not there, you need those people to be the owners and to be the sounding board of your business. So you have to have those people in place to lead that charge. That's the key. So I mean, going from Outback, which yes, it is, you know, more corporate to then the VUIs to, you know, it's it's not as much. But then back to Taco Mac, which is corporate, yes, but not really. I mean, more called 28, 27 restaurants, it still comes down to the people, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

And what

Hiring For Intangibles That Matter

SPEAKER_00 2:45

do you look for in the people? So what are the things that you've said, hey, these make for great people that we want to have on? And and here are some attributes that at this point in your career you uh filter out pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I always like to look for things that I can't. I hire what I can't, you know, those intangibles, the things that people have that you can't necessarily teach. Like I can teach a lot of things, but the things, you know, work ethics, smile, attitude, things that just people just have, you can't fix lazy. You can't fix attitude. You can't, you know, I mean, people come in with a with a bad attitude. Those things are really sometimes hard to fix. I can teach the computer, I can teach how to bust a table, I can teach all of these little things. So I try to hire those intangibles. People that typically have a really good work ethic or show up on time, show up early. Those are those little things that I taught that I like to work, you know, look for, especially in managers, especially in GM type people. So looking for those things early is has always been the key for me.

Interviewing Beyond Scripted Answers

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Any good interview questions that you've found to help suss out good from bad?

SPEAKER_01 3:50

That's a good one, man, because nowadays I think these kids, especially the younger ones, they they gain these interviews, man. They know ahead of time. So you really have to kind of go away from the interview, the typical interview questions, and just kind of get to know them a little bit and really kind of poke and prod and get because they're prepped, man. They are prepped and ready for the normal interview. So you almost have to just kind of go away from it completely and just and it seems weird, honestly, just ask them non-restaurant questions and non-restacked. Oh, interesting. It really is because again, I have two kids myself, older, you know, 24, 21-year-old. And so they've been in the workforce and they ask the same thing. And they're it's okay. I'm gonna interview you. And my oldest daughter, I'm like, I said, Look, you're this is not good. You're you sound computerist, you you sound like chat GPT. Any good interview is gonna see right through you. So you need to be more human, more personality. Talk like you're talking to a customer at a table. So I I I typically like to do that. Just go old school and just talk to them like I'm a customer.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Bruce, I completely agree with you. That's a great answer. And I don't have anything else to add to that. No, I'm kidding. It's like right. It's like I I feel like when uh with AI, it becomes so easy to just take the simple road and especially in like written communication, right? It becomes so easy to just get out there and click AI and respond with that. But having that humanistic, having that be able to just like chat with someone, I think one of the best pieces of advice that someone gave me with interviews is they said the question of tell me about yourself, really spend time on answering that. A lot of people, they can spend, you know, I did my MBA and I would see people spending hours and hours and hours prepping all these different kinds of case questions. But the first question that every interviewer asked was, tell me about yourself, some version of that, or like walk me through your resume, which is really the same question. And so if you spend a lot of time figuring out a great answer to that question, the rest of the interview will go so much better. And it's like, if you know, for example, like if I told them, I said, if you knew that they would ask you this case question, how much would you prep for it? And they were like, oh yeah, we spent a lot of time prepping for it. I'm like, all right, well, you know the first question, so prep for it. And I love that idea of just like being more human in the interviews. And I think probably there's a lot of leaders here who are listening to this podcast. And I would take that question of tell me about yourself and have that really be how hospitality focused is this person, right? How much of those soft skills do they have?

Tech, Generations, And Real Connection

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah. No, for sure. And and and and another great point because a lot of especially the younger generation, and I was fortunate because I have two kids that kind of growing up with this, I know how different my generation is to theirs. And you have to be in tune to each gen. I don't even know what generation we're on now as X.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

We're coming up.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Gen Alpha is starting to approach uh the workforce now. You know, you already dated me earlier when you know the the restaurant experience years, so but it is, it's hard. You have to keep up and you have to know that they're coming in already very, very in tune. But the personality, customers come into our restaurants a lot of times to escape a lot of that stuff. They're still in tune with their phones. They're still, you know, you look around the restaurants and you can do this in any restaurant, and the kids have their iPads or phones, they're you know, cut you see couples not not engaging, but uh, I think a lot of times it's our job to help them disconnect if they want to be disconnected and and to provide that great experience. And our employees should know how to do that and and be able to do that and provide a great experience when they need to.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Love

Manager Presence And Better Training

SPEAKER_00 7:33

that. So talking about the experience, what are some things that you've seen to improve the guest experience?

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Yeah, so I mean, I think just being engaging. I had some notes written down here just based on some questions you had sent me over, but I think it it's again goes back to the very, very basics manager presence, manager in the dining room, being engaging with the customers that come in to spend their money. I mean, I I think back to old school. I had a mentor one time, and they told me it's not hard. Customers come in, they come in with their wallets and saying they want to give us their money, and all we have to do is provide them with good service, good food, and good experience. Today is a little different because the customer is so much like the level of education that the customer has in the restaurant business industry now is off the charts. Whether it's Google, AI, all the stuff that they know, they know more about our restaurants sometimes than we do. I mean, whether it's the food, ingredients, gluten-free, I mean, all of this aspects of the restaurant industry. So we have to be on our game now more than we ever have been before. And that part, the education piece is crucial. So manager presence in dining room and having our people when we train them, training is another huge piece. We can't just give them a sheet of paper when we hire them and say, hey, learn this, memorize this menu, and and slap them on the back and say, all right, go get them. I mean, they have to be ready to answer these questions and be ready to present a great customer experience.

Planning The Manager Day

SPEAKER_00 8:57

When you talk about manager presence, what are some things that you have your managers do that you found can improve the guest experience?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, so just having uh, you know, a plan, really honestly, from the time they get there to the time they leave, having a plan. When is your office time? When is your line check time? When is your time that's dedicated to your people? When are your windows of business? You know, do you know, hey, this is when I need to be here? This is when the lull of the day comes, okay, I can get some projects done in this time. Okay, this is my interview time of the day. Just knowing that. And then knowing this could there's going to be some curveballs throughout the day. Say, hey, I I had this plan for any of you, but maybe a catering order comes in. Catering, exactly. Something comes in unexpected. So having a plan, I see way too often, especially inexperienced managers, they just don't have that plan. And they're like, I just can't never get anything done. I said, okay, well, walk me through your day. They just can't. It's very chaotic. And say, okay, let's start with a plan. What are you doing? And breaking it down even in 15-minute increments, 30-minute increments. And you'd be surprised how much time is wasted in their day. And I'm like, look, I just freed up six hours of your day where you're doing nothing. Fill in these gaps. And sometimes you have to break it down for them like that. Another great example is when a manager comes and says, I'm working so much. Okay, break it down for me. Tell me how you're working so much. Break your day down, break down the lunch shift, break down the dinner shift. But again, and experienced managers, they just need to be taught sometimes how to do that and how to use their time wisely.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

So, what

Turning First Timers Into Regulars

SPEAKER_00 10:29

are some low-hanging fruits in terms of either managers or as you're doing, like uh, you know, as you've been focused on different turnarounds and improving these brands, what are some low-hanging fruits that you found?

SPEAKER_01 10:39

I think the low-hanging fruit definitely for me, just as far as, I mean, the shoot, I could go a different log different sales, customer interaction. I think for right now specifically, I think one leads into the other. Capturing the customer experience leads to growth in sales. A lot of customers right now, they're using catering, they're using third-party. But all of these channels are still ways to get customers to try your food. Getting them to try it, not just the first time. How do you get them to come back the second and third? Once you get them to come back that third visit, usually you have a customer for a while. So that in itself, are you recognizing those first-time customers? How do you get them to come back that second time? When you see them that second time, how are you getting to come back that third time? And even if it's a catering or to go order on the second or third visit, how are we recognizing? How are we getting to come back? Because every, I mean, I know at least in our area, there's so many restaurants. Everybody is competing for that same that group. So, and a lot of times, uh we I know we talked about AI and and all this stuff, but everybody's pretty much using the same tools that are out there, at least they probably should be, and algorithms and all these other things. So, what are you doing differently to set yourself apart and what are you doing better than your competition? And I know I I preach on that a lot to my team, but yeah, that I don't know. That I know I I kind of ramble. It's not really a perfect answer for the low-hanging fruit, but well, no, I think that's I think it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

I think when you look at it in terms of doing those little things that your competition isn't doing. And I think that's part of the wonderful thing about leveraging technology while having hospitality is you look at AI and it's like the Iron Man suit. Tony Stark was nothing special about him, but when you put on that, but other than his heart, right? Like he had that, he knew that he wanted to do good. And so if you find those people that you want to do good and you give them that training and the technology, that's like the Iron Man suit where they could do so much more, but you still need the Tony Stark and you still need the Iron Man suit. The suit without the man isn't a superhero, and the man without the suit isn't a superhero. And I think when you can do that and train your staff and give them the technology that they need, I see magic happening out there and creating these real moments of human connection. And I think that's one of the things I've seen in our interactions and how you train your team is really focusing on the guest and making sure that people don't forget about that. And they, you know, so to speak, they have that chair for Elijah in all the meetings of all right, this is for the guest because it matters. Like it matters that the guest is in corporate trainings, and I've seen you do that and seen you bring that in there. That's hard to teach, right? But the more that you bring it up, the more that you talk about it, I think the more that people understand it, right?

Using Feedback Data Without Overreacting

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Yeah, and I think, I mean, in in I know we're on your ovation podcast, but I I did have written down that how ovation has helped all three brands that I've worked with. Um, I know when we first went down to Taco Mac, you know, Tammy and I brought you all on and immediately saw success. And and not just with the review aspect of it, but just the changes that we were able to make just by listening to the customer, just by getting feedback that we weren't really getting before and receiving it quickly and receiving it and being able to act on it promptly. We I mean we completely revamped our to-go strategy, getting food hot to the customer, more timely, curbside packaging, curbside pickup. So, I mean, we were able to do that pretty quick with Taco Mac. And then with you know, same thing with Vooys and Little Hats. I mean, we listen to the customer, we we just changed our broth at Vooy's. We, I mean, we're pivoting as quick as we receive the ovation comments sometimes. And again, it's not about being reactive or knee-jerk, but we're able to, in real time, just listen to the customer. And I think today's customer really, really wants that. They're telling you because they want to visit your restaurant again. And if they feel like their voice isn't heard, they're just going to go down the street and find someone that is going to listen to them because having good food is just the cost of entry today. You have to provide a great atmosphere, great hospitality, great service, and also have great food.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, that's a great, I appreciate you sharing your experience with ovation because I think that at the end of the day, that's why we started, you know, I started ovation 10 years ago to help connect the brands with their guests, because it's so hard when you go into a place like, you know, you could go into Taco Mac and or, you know, go into Vuis and you go in there 10 times and have 10 great experiences, but there's not a place to really share that. And people don't necessarily always think about, oh, I need to go leave an online review. Because if you look at the volume of online reviews, you're getting less than 1% of your guests to give you online reviews. But the guests who had a negative experience are three times more likely to leave you a negative review than a guest who had a good experience will leave you a positive review. And that's just because of the friction. And so when you reduce that friction of how much effort does it take to get feedback or to give feedback, you'll find that you're going to get a lot more people to actually share what's going on. And then you find out these things that take you from good to great, right? These hidden unlocks in there. And I think that one of the things that you do a good job of, Bruce, is not just reacting. It's like, oh my gosh, we got a one-star Yelp review. We need to change our menu. But that's one of the things that I think is important about ovation is that we're able to give you information and aggregate it so that way you can see what's trending. How do you separate the noise from the actual patterns, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah, for sure. 100%. I couldn't agree more. And that's exactly what has shown through for us, at least, since we've been partnered up with you guys.

Scaling A Brand Without Breaking Systems

SPEAKER_00 16:43

So as you're thinking about your experience again, from big brands to smaller brands that are growing into big brands, what is some advice that you would give to someone who like, okay, I just took over the realm, I just took over the helm of a growing small brand, or maybe I've started this brand a while ago and I feel kind of stuck. Like, what advice would you give them in terms of how do I grow my brand, Bruce?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Yeah, I think first, and I could, you know, use my experience, you know, with little hats, because I think we're going through that a little bit. A great brand, great presence in the community. Social media followers are really good. But before we can grow and before we can truly grow, it's kind of like what we're going through now. Like we have to have the menu has to be right, the food has to be spot on. Can we replicate what we're doing here? Because they have, you know, maybe they have a great staff and it's been there for five years. And well, how do we go to a Gallatin or or a Murphy's borough that we have to hire all a new crew and how do we train them? Okay, well, do we have proper training? Well, do we have manager training? No, that's missing. So filling in the gaps, especially in, you know, we mentioned a new somebody that's just starting out or a new restaurant, if they're wanting to expand or wanting to get that business better, looking at all these little things that maybe they didn't because they built it and now you know they want to remove themselves and hire a GM, or do they have these tools that are so important, maybe not to them when they first started it, but injecting someone new, these job aids, these tools that are that will make them successful down the road, versus coming back in, you know, say five, six, seven years later and saying, oh wow, now we're four stores in, five stores in, and we're missing all of these things. And now we have to pause. And now our we have all these great customers, and it's like they're wanting more. They're like, wait, what are you doing? You're not giving us catering? What do you mean? Oh, we're not, we can't get third party. What what what's going on? It just stops the bit, you know, stops the business from flowing properly. So I think that would be my biggest advice is not is resist that urge to go so fast, but make sure you have a lot of these basics done first.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Love that. And I think that because it becomes evident as you start to scale, you know, like for us, I remember the the systems that we had in place when we were 100 restaurants, uh, when we worked with 100 restaurants, and now we work with over 10,000 restaurants. And it's like those systems broke along the way. And we had to continuously put in different processes and different systems at each step because it's like, oh yeah, this is a manual process. That's not a big deal. We could just get someone to sign this form with all the credit card numbers, and then we'll go put that in there. Well, it's like, well, that may have worked at 100 locations, but at 10,000, you need the customer to handle. I don't want my team handling credit card information, right? So there's things like that where it's like sometimes you don't know until you get there. And other times you really got to just think through the process of, okay, let's put like a thousand extra customers in the top of the funnel here. What systems are breaking, right? And as you go through that process, it's much easier to do it mentally before and and fix it than it is to wait for a Friday night for it to break, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And and you brand broke a great point. I mean, you you all expanded and got to a thousand, and that's great before you realize it, but I think taking that pause or taking that step to realize it is important.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Well,

Who To Follow And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Bruce, as you're thinking about your career in this industry, who's someone that we should be following? Who's someone that deserves innovation?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Someone that I've just recently kind of caught on to, and he's been around for a while, but I'd love to follow him on Instagram. It's really old school, but Preston Lee, uh Eastern Rule, he has got just the simplest, most basic thought process around hospitality. And I just love some of his videos, the the um some of his quotes. It just doesn't overcomplicate things. He just keeps it simple. It's really, really good. I I would I recomm I tell all my, I mean, if a restaurant person or manager out there is not following him on social media or listening to his videos, they're doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Well, and I just I just bring up my phone to say I literally was just DMing with Preston. So anyway, hilarious. Yeah, he's awesome. Just really, really sharp guy, and excited to have him on this podcast as as well. So well, Bruce, for keeping it fresh with fresh hospitality. Today's ovation goes to you. But before we end, how can people find and follow you and your brands?

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah, so uh for little hats, that little hats, market, uh, and then uh vooies, that vooys kitchen. Bruce, thanks so much for joining us. Always fun to chat with you, recorded or not. Awesome, man. Thanks, Zach. I really appreciate it.

Final Thanks, Review Request, And Sponsor

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by OVACU, a two-question estimate-based, actionable get feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.