Welcome And Meet Jennifer Schulert

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Given Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Oates, and each week I get to chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the AI feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what's actually happening in your restaurant and exactly how to improve while driving revenue. Learn more at ovationup.com. And today we have Jennifer Schulert. If you don't know her, she is a titan of the industry. She was the CEO of Wetzels Pretzels, and now she's the CEO of Handles. We have a mutual mentor in Bill Phelps, a dear friend and someone who's just been doing incredible things. And I never had the privilege of working with him directly, only like working with him as a customer and as friends. But Jennifer had the privilege of working directly with him at Wetzels. And so anyway, I'm excited, Jennifer, because not only have you had a great education, Harvard Business School, but also Stanford. Harvard. I said Harvard. Oh my gosh. There's some alumni network that's gonna be bad at me.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

That's all right. That's all right. I'll take either.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Stanford. They're both pretty good, though. I mean, I'm not sure. I'd take either. Yeah. Anyway, but you've had some great hands-on education as well. So, Jennifer, I'm so excited to get your take on this. And first of all, I just love to jump in and be like when you were looking to move on from Wetzels, what was it that attracted you about handles?

Sabbatical Lessons And Choosing Handel’s

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah, sure. It's a great question. And I'll I'll give you a little story about it too. So after my experience at Wetzels, I worked with Bill there, and I spent about a decade there. And I just thought like, I could never find a better job than this. I think, you know, the culture was phenomenal. We had kind of unlocked some new growth in the business that was unexpected. And, you know, pretzels were just fun. And so I took a year off. And in that time, one of the things I noticed was how allergic I felt to anything digital and how much I craved in-person experiences. And I think even now in this world of AI, AI is going to do amazing things for us. And I think it's also going to make people crave those in-person connections even more. And there's a lot of research that shows restaurants do that for people. It's those micro connections. It's the reason Starbucks is using a Sharpie to write your name on a cup again because it's that little personal micro connection type of touch. I was grabbing a sandwich the other day by my office, and the guy saw my handle shirt and asked him what I did. And I told him his handles. And I said, Oh, I have to take this call. When I come back, I'll get my sandwich. And when I came back, he had written my name on the sandwich in an ice cream cone.

unknown 2:46

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

And I just stopped. And I, at the end of the day, I was like, what was the best part of my day? And I was like, it was when the guy from the sandwich shop saw me and put an ice cream cone on my bag. Just those little micro connections, I think, are going to matter even more. And so going back to my decision, I was really craving something where you could make that type of connections happen in your community. And I will remember it so vividly because that was the soft side. On the harder side, I was looking for a brand that I thought had potential to scale and be a national brand and had white space to grow. Because I think what I do best is capitalizing that, building momentum around it, building a team to capitalize on it. And so I remember I'd been about not quite a year into the sabbatical. And it was on a Tuesday. And I thought to myself, okay, like what brands are out there that fit that for me? And the one that came in my mind immediately, like was handles. It's right down the road from my house. The number one store in the country is here. They do a fabulous job of making an intentional point of connection with the guests. And it's the place we go to celebrate any amazing thing that's happening in the family, like we won the game, to cushion any blow, you know, like I got rejected, you know, I didn't get into the school I wanted, whatever that is. That's where we go to handles to do that. And so that's the brand that popped in my mind on a Tuesday. And literally two days later, a recruiter called me and said, they're searching for a CEO and wondered if you would be interested.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Wow.

Why Ice Cream Fits Every Moment

SPEAKER_01 4:11

So my search is pretty narrow that's. So it felt like a really good fit for me.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

That's awesome. And I think that really like the whole concept of ice cream, I love that point of like it softens the blow, but it's a it's a celebration, right? It's like, hey, I had a tough day. Let's go to handles. It's like, hey, we had a great day. Let's go to handles. It's like, hey, it's a Thursday. Let's go to Handles. There's just the occasions of that outside of breakfast are pretty big, right? I think if you go into handles for breakfast, it's uh yeah, you may need to.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Who's going for breakfast are the senior citizen crew because they've been up since five in the morning. So like 11 a.m. It's lunchtime. It's it's time for ice cream. And it's like protein and calcium dense, they need the calories. Like it we we really do serve a need.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Do you actually have like a decent breakfast day part? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

No, we uh no, it's pretty slow, but we do have a core demographic that we see comes at that time.

Product First Then Human Connection

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah. Wow. Okay. That's impressive. Not something I would have expected, but I love that you think about those guests because it is about all the guests. And so as you think about guest experience, what do you think are some of the most important aspects of guest experience nowadays? And maybe kind of phrase a little differently. Like, what do you think other restaurants get wrong when they think about the guest experience?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, totally. I think so, like by way of background, we're quick on handles, 80-year-old, 80-plus-year-old brand, we make ice cream from scratch in store. So I think first and foremost, our product is kind of best in class. Like there's no other ice cream player that's doing it at our scale. 150 flavors, 48 available every day, made from scratch in store. So foundationally, you got to have your product right.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

So And by the way, I will say, as someone who is allergic to milk, great vegan options as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Oh, good. I'm glad. More coming. We we've got a line coming this summer because we've got a lot of fruit vegan options, but I vegans need creamy stuff too. So we've got some like creamy, peanut buttery, chocolatey options coming this summer. So they'll be more fruit. So I think like foundationally the exceptional product experience. You can't leapfrog over that. But I think on the guest side, I think people are overly tempted to use technology to cut costs and put something between them and the guest. And there are times where I think technology will be incredibly helpful, like AI to ensure that orders on the drive-thru are made with accuracy. Great, like double check it, like because accuracy is the number one customer complaint. You can use AI to address that. But people, I was saying earlier, like they crave those points of connections. People want to be seen. And in a restaurant industry, you're going so fast to service, like on in quick, like I got a minute or less to serve this customer, a line this long, whatever that is. You have to be able to like hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle behind the scenes. And then when you get to the guest, slow down. It's like a theater production, like everything's moving fast and quickly. But when you come here, like that's your moment to like pause, connect, find a reason to make that moment last a little bit longer. I think people underestimate how much people will value that.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Well, I think right behind me here, I have that the book Unreasonable.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Okay, wait, do I have mine here? I okay, I've been reading the same book. I think it's fantastic. Phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Okay, for those who are listening that don't know what just happened, let me say I moved my head and I showed that I have Will Gadera's Unreasonable Hospitality right behind me. And what an incredible book. And I think that one of the things he talks about, and he shared this when he came on the podcast as well, is that, for example, your financials, most of it needs to be completely strict. And then you have that little percentage that you just do whatever you want with, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:04

We totally do that. Yes. I love that because in food service, there's this ethos of like pinch every penny because it's low margin and you have to. And that is right. But what he says exactly that like pinch all those pennies behind the scenes that in places that don't matter, they don't care about, so that you have dollars to throw at a guest to make that experience memorable. And they did it in a fine dining experience. So they would, you know, like create a snow day for someone who was coming in from Florida. I think we can do it. And you know, there's other ways you can apply it to more of a quick serve restaurant. But I think you're exactly right, Zach. And I think it's very important to distinguish those things because even in my own organization, people are like, oh, but we have to be cost conscious. And I'm like, yeah, 90% of the time. And 10% of the time, you have to be wild.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

But kind of what you're talking about though is not only on the financial side, but also on the emotional side, right? And on like the prep side where Oh, that's so interesting. Right? Like you go 95% so hard, so focused, so diligent, but you know, because you're not always dealing with guests. There's a lot of prep, there's a lot of back of house things that need to get set up. But then to your point of like take that five, 10% when you were there with a guest, slow down, look them in the eyes. I think that's so powerful to use that same concept because at the end of the day, we're all trying to make guests feel special, right? And make sure feel seen.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah. That's a really powerful connection you're making, Zach. No, between because dollars are a resource and time is a resource. So if you think about time as that resource that's constrained, how do you apply the same thing there? I I really like you've given me a really cool way to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

I mean, you you said it, Jennifer. I was just repeated it.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah. I like the way you I like the way you summarized it.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah. But that's a thing where when people we talk about the last mile. And at the end of the day, if you think about that counter, that that three foot counter, it's really not about the last mile, but it's about the last three feet. Because it's not about getting someone the right food at the right time at the right temp. It's about how they feel about it, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah, yeah. You have to do the other stuff. Like you need the right, do the right thing, like without that, it's the best payroll. Yeah.

Hiring Franchisees With True Hospitality

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Right? Yeah. I often think about one of my good friends, she lived in Brooklyn and there were two coffee shops. One that was closer, that was good, and one that was a little bit farther that was great. And so it was like, she said, which one did I go to? Oh, sorry, it was closer and great and further and good. I was like, obviously, the one that was closer and great. And she goes, I went to the one where they knew my name. And that was like such an aha moment for me of that's really what hospitality is, right? Wow. Yeah. And so when you think about handles and when you think about how to create that guest experience, are there any tactics that you've implemented or even at Wetzel's? Because both are kind of you don't have a lot of time with your guests. And so what are some tactics that you've used to help create a better guest experience?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah. I think there's some things about ice cream that naturally lend to it. So for example, because we're making ice cream from scratch, we're coming in the morning, we're assessing what went got sold through, we're looking at the season and saying, oh, it's time to bring out the peach line. In the morning, you're prepping, then your ice cream is sitting overnight, you're serving it the next day, and you're scooping and going. And so it's it's different dynamically than I think what happens in a burger or a chicken place where you are frying to order and it like it's just a little harder in that environment to do it. I think we spent time with our friend, I think we're a franchise organization. So we spend time when we're bringing in franchise partners to see that are those people who just really delight in it, like who naturally enjoy it, who are drawn to it. And in fact, that's even more important. Like we can teach you ice cream making, but if you're not naturally drawn to how to delight a guest, then it's gonna be hard to teach you that part. We can train for skill, but not for that wiring. And I remember the other day we were interviewing a potential franchise partner and he had run a pizza restaurant. And so I said, you know, like tell me about a time where you stepped up to make a guest feel like special and seen. And he told me the most compelling story of a gentleman who came in and looked kind of off-kilter and just like kind of not in a good headspace. And he got him his pizza and sat down with him. And ultimately, like the police came and escorted this gentleman away. And it turned out he was having some sort of like mental health psychosis and had like left the house or whatever. And three months later, the wife came in and tried to pay for the pizza and like gave him like$50. He's like, You do not owe me anything. And she's like, You were with my husband in the moment of need. Like you saw him, you sat with him, you spent the time to do that. I'm just like so deeply grateful for that. And that's just wiring, right? Like someone who's wired to see someone hurting and stick with them in that moment. And so I think when he told that story, I was like, You're in. Like ice cream's way easier than that.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

You mean he didn't just say, like, oh, you got$10,000 deposit, you're in. You mean you actually care about your franchisees and oh my gosh.

Measuring Reviews And Training Better Moments

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yeah, that he spent a lot of time on that piece. Yeah, that piece is a lot. And if I don't hear it from someone, it doesn't really matter the capital or that's there. It's, you know, we're not gonna fit. There's not a values alignment between us and them. And so that's I think the first thing that we're listening for. And then I think the second thing, I think we do a good job of measuring it internally. And I want to get better at building the tactics. So on the measuring side, we are pretty adamant about if you look at us across like kind of global Yelp, we're about a four-six, which is pretty strong. And so we're always looking at that. Every week we're showing franchisees where they are, where they're at, what their most recent reviews were, so they can understand where the gaps are and tighten that up. I want to get better at the tactical piece, like, you know, beyond just like the emotion finding people who are naturally drawn to it, but the tactical side. Because I really think we can be like the equivalent of like a wine sommelier at a restaurant for ice cream. You know, like for when people come in and you've got like 48 different flavors, it's your first time at handle. It's like, why are you here? What are you celebrating? You get a sticker because it's your first visit, a la, Disneyland experience. And then you get someone who's so pumped and so proud of the ice cream and the craftsmanship that goes behind it that they sit with you and spend time like, well, tell me what you're into. Like, oh, you're vegan. Okay, great. Do you like more fruits or chocolates? Have you tried this? And that we can build even more experiential approach to it.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

I love that. It's so powerful because everyone's saying people aren't spending as much, and that's true. But what they are spending are an ice cream, Zach.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Oh, seriously, because we are so committed to generous portions and very conservative on our price increases. Like we look at in and out, like they're in a world where everything is shrinking, you're not seeing that shrinking. Like your fries are overloaded, and they're very cautious about the price points they the price increases they take. And that's when you're a brand that's trying to be multi-generational, that's the way you have to think. And I think guests reward you time and time again with their loyalty. So we are actually having a finite, like on a sales performance phenomenal 2026.

Flavor Trends And New Menu Ideas

SPEAKER_00 15:29

And that's incredible because if you a lot of people say, I want to join a nostalgic brand, they're not thinking, I need to build a nostalgic brand, right? Because the people that you're serving today, are they going to be the people that are going to bring their grandkids in and their kids in? I think that if you think of every day today, we are building a nostalgic brand. That's how you get there. You don't get there by just like buying a brand that's 80 years old or they're just being like, hey, we've always been around. Like it's it's about doing those little things consistently. So yeah. Jennifer, this has been such a great conversation. Last question Who is someone that we should follow? Who's someone that deserves an ovation?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Okay. In the restaurant space, there's a chef that I follow. Her name is Molly Baz. And I think of food trends like food as fashion in many ways. Like it, you know, it trends over time. And I think she generationally is hitting on the type of the food trends of the way people are and flavor combos of the way people are going to want to eat over the next decade. And I think it's the foods, but also the way it's plated, like not so fussy, very approachable, but still elevated. And this, like she just does a really nice job of flavor balance, sweet and salty, where it's unexpected, and using unexpected and surprising ingredients in a way that merge really nicely. So anyway, I always love looking at what she's doing because it I think it informs us when we think about new flavor development.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

I love that. And and not being afraid to try new things, I think it's great. I mean, I actually just two days ago or yesterday, I went to a Jeff's bagel run and I had a salt and rosemary bagel with brown sugar cream cheese.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

And it was like that's exactly what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Right. And I'm like, what did I just eat? And like the first bite, I was like, I don't know about this. And then by the time I was done, I was like, I should have gotten two.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Because it's almost like you had that sweet, you had that salty, you had the herbaceous, maybe lummy, and it's like that flavor balance. I think it's actually more common in Japanese type cuisine where there's like these sweet, salty. We find when we do that, it's a really magical pairing. So, like at a very when we bring that down to our level at handles, where we try to have flavors that are very approachable and time honored. We launched a product last year that did phenomenally well and is now going to become on full-time ability, which is called Not Your Average Dough. And what was different about it was the ice cream was swirled with a salted pretzel ripple that cut some of the sweet elements of the cookie dough in there. And like it's exactly like you said, like that combination, you're like, ooh, like it just it's very um I I can't imagine where you had the idea of pretzels.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Not me. I just said this is the flavor team.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

This is the flavor team. I did not insert my smile.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I can't believe they got it approved. Wow.

Where To Follow And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 18:21

I didn't even think about that until now. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Anyway, that's so fun. Well, Jennifer, how did people find and follow you in handles?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

I would say for handles personally, the best way to find us is like Instagram or online, but even better, I would say, is come visit us. That's where it all happened.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah. There you go. Jennifer, such a great conversation. And for teaching us how to blend different flavors to create a great guest experience and for making all Harvard alumni jealous they didn't go to Stanford. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Given Ovation.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Awesome. Thanks, Jack. It's so nice. I enjoyed the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question SMS-based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.