Meet Danielle And The Concept

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Oats, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-mare restaurants. Learn what's actually happening in your restaurants and exactly how to improve while driving revenue. Learn more at ovationup.com. And today I'm so excited because we have someone who I get a chance to hear her speak live and was blown away by her story and what she's accomplished. And in looking more into her background and more into her brand, I was even more impressed. And so I was like, we gotta have her on. Danielle Mann, the founder and CEO of Topsail Steamer, which is spelled like Top Sail Steamer and Steamer not plural, but pronounced Topso after the island. And by the way, if you get to the end of this podcast and you're like, wow, Danielle is like really good at media, and she's like just no stranger to the microphone. That is true because in fact, she is one of the very few restaurateurs who has brought her brand onto Shark Tank, which is amazing and very challenging to do for FB. So, Danielle, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Wow, thank you so much, Zach. That is quite a welcome. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Well, it's easy when uh, you know, there's a lot of impressive things to say. So, Danielle, for those who aren't familiar with topsoil steamers, sorry, I always want to say steamers.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Everybody does. Everybody does.

How The Take-Home Steampot Works

SPEAKER_01 1:36

So topsoil steamer singular. Talk to us about what that concept is.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah. So at Topsoil Steamer, we make seafood steam pots for our customers to take home and steam and eat at home. So think of like a low country boil or crab bake, clam bake. So essentially, what we do is we build in a single-use pot a seafood steam pot. It starts with fresh vegetables, corn, potatoes, and then we layer in all types of fresh seafood: shrimp, crab, clams, oysters, lobster tail. You get to pick your one of our four homemade seasonings, and then you actually take the bucket home. You pour in two bucks of water or beer, cook it on your stovetop, roll out the brown paper that we give to you, and then just still it on the table. And it's really meant to sit around with friends and family and enjoy a nice, fun, great meal with lots of connection.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

And how did you come up with this concept?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

So the the actual idea for me sparked when I was on a girls' weekend with my mom and my sister. We were in the Outer Banks, and it was actually off season, and we were having lunch at a full service restaurant, and I noticed there was a stream of people coming in and they had a takeout counter. And what this restaurant was doing is they were making, if you remember in the black and white enamel lobster pots, they were building low country boils for customers to take home. They would pick it up and then bring the pot back the next day. For me, that's when the label went off for a few reasons. Number one, we had a home in Topsell Island, and one of our favorite things to do was when we had either friends or family was to go to the seafood market, get seafood, and spend the night doing the same thing. And so I knew that that was just something that I love to do, that it was very common, and that sometimes it was a little inconvenient, right? You gotta go to four different stores. Maybe you're a little unsure about how to cook the seafood, maybe you don't want to go through all that preparations. When I first saw it, I thought, I think that can be something without a full service restaurant or without a seafood market. It's a concept that could stand on its own.

Origin Story And Early Validation

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So I mean, and what a cool concept because just when I heard about it, it just never even occurred to me. It was like, oh yeah, like that makes total sense. And why doesn't that exist? Because it looks so fun and it's such a community, like a fun way to eat dinner as a family or as a group. And it's amazing that you were able to do that. And because when did you start Topsil Steamer?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

So I opened the first location in March of 2017. So we're just coming up on our ninth anniversary.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yep. So, and right here, I'm coming to you today live from Topsil Island, and this is where our flagship, our first store is. Yep. And it'll we're just about to be nine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

And is everything to go, or do you have the dine-in as well?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

No, because we don't cook anything. There's nothing that we cook. That's also what's beautiful when you're thinking about a multi-unit restaurant or just you know going into this this concept itself, there is no cooking. So our back of the house is full of fridges and sinks, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Wow, that's amazing. And you're franchising now as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah. What was the thought process on like, hey, do we grow this organically or do we franchise it? How'd you come to the franchise concept?

Scaling Decisions And Franchising

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Yeah, so it's an interesting, you know, way we got here. Initially, we saw pretty quickly that this concept works and that customers really loved it, right? And so initially we thought, okay, well, where can we expand? Where's the opportunity? And again, we just were seeing that there were so many places and tons of opportunity. So I opened another store in North Carolina. I'm originally from New Jersey, so I spent my summers at the Jersey Shore. So I went from North Carolina to New Jersey because I just knew those markets so well. Opened up a few there. And then again, we just saw the opportunity for us to expand. And so it's that point I had to make the decision because I really had bootstrapped it from the beginning. You know, I'm a late-in-life entrepreneur. I was in corporate America, I took the jump with the idea, but I still had two kids at college and I quit my job to do this. So we needed capital at that point to continue building brick and mortar stores. So, you know, there's really two routes at that point. You either start looking for investors or private equity, that route, or you take a look at franchising. And initially, I had a bias to franchising based in no fact at all, just some of those things that people think about when they hear, oh, franchising. But what I really discovered along the way was, and what I loved about it, what it was, it was the potential to be able to partner with other like-minded entrepreneurs like me who wanted to build a business, just maybe didn't have the right idea. And so that really just aligned with me and who I am and how I wanted to grow the business. So that's when we decided to go into franchising. And then once we were in that process, we realized that the elements of the business model were just so well suited to scale through through franchising because it's a very simple model.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah. And speaking of like the funding and desire to go out there, tell us about the journey of going on to Shark Tank. Like, because you know, I've had actually three friends who have been on Shark Tank and not had their episodes aired. And I've had four friends who have been on Shark Tank and had their episodes air. It's a pretty big jump and it's a big risk. It's a big time investment, it's a big stressor to prep for it, and then you're not even guaranteed to get on it. And then even if you get a deal, quote unquote, only half of those deals actually happen. So it's a big long process. But talk to me about your journey and like how did you decide Shark Tank was the right move for you? And what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah. So I knew that as we were expanding through franchising, that one of the obstacles that we had were that not only were we an unknown brand, which all new brands face that, but we were also, I was kind of creating a category, right? We were, there was nobody else doing what we're doing. So there was a customer education. We not only had to tell you who we were, we had to tell you what we did and how we did it. And that was an obstacle that I knew that our franchisees would face when entering new markets. So I thought, well, how do we get that out there? And I just thought, well, wouldn't it be wonderful if I could explain it and talk about it on national television? So I just one day I went on my computer and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna apply to Shark Take. So I applied and about 40, they get about 40,000 applicants per season. So I was really surprised when I got the call. And then I got the second call and the third call. And as I'm sure you probably know from your experience with your friends, it is a long and involved process. And it starts with interviews and videos and financials and due diligence, like so much into the business model and business plans. And then you have to decide what's going to be on stage and you have to send it out there and all along, never knowing if you're actually gonna even get the call to film. And so for me, we I started it in January. I finally got the call in end of May that I'd be filming in June. And I got a chance to fly out to LA and film. And it was an amazing experience. I mean, yes, so much stress because now you realize, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be on national TV talking about my business. I want to make sure I know everything. I want to answer every question. I want to know every, you know. So for me, there was a lot of preparation. But it was amazing. It was really an incredible experience. They were wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

And you did get a deal with Lori and Todd. Todd.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

And they don't even know who your sharks are, but until about the day before. And so Todd Graves from Raising Canes was it was his first day. He was a guest shark, and he initially offered me a deal, and then Lori asked if she could go in on the deal. So I took the deal with two sharks. And no shark went out at all during the whole thing, which was really fun. They all loved it, which ran invalidation and all of that. Like me, you couldn't have asked for more. That's something I could have asked for better in their reaction.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

And I know, and by the way, that deal did it end up going through, or is that not public? It didn't.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

No, it's public. Yeah, so you're exactly right. And in fact, it's even less than 50% that actually do go through. So after the show, then it really does turn into due diligence. You know, it turns into an you know an investment deal. And so ultimately, and it's the decision on both sides whether to move forward or not. And ultimately, I can say we just really weren't aligned on how we would grow. And so we just decided that it it didn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Well, especially, I mean, Todd, you know, his perspective on raising canes. I mean, he spent about what, like four quintillion dollars buying back all the franchisees.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

And so he is not a uh a fan of the franchise model. That is correct.

Shark Tank Strategy And Outcome

SPEAKER_01 10:11

No, but I do know a couple of people that are retired now for life because of Todd buying back their raising canes location. So, anyway, there's a bunch of people who did well, and Todd's not doing too bad himself. So I think that works out.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

And it opened the door for me too. Not only did it open so many doors in the exposure and all of that, and marketing and exposure and validation that you know any any young brand could just dream of, of also being able to meet people along the way, like Kathleen Wood, who formerly worked for Raising Canes, who is working with us as a growth advisor. So it's really opened up a lot of different doors for me in terms of opportunity and growth through that.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

And and obviously there was a huge spike. I mean, I've read upwards of like 500% increase in orders and tens of thousands of new people hitting the website. And then I do want to talk about the uh another phase of this journey, which is gold belly.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Now, gold belly, what a fascinating concept. And what you do, it seems to lend itself really well to that. Obviously, just gotta have the seafood frozen, I'm assuming, when you get it, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

No, actually, it's served fresh. We um it's all served overnight with gel packs, it layered in the pot. Yeah. Yeah, so it's so it'll it'll keep a temperature for 48 hours.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

And how do you recommend Goldbelly? Like, do you like it? Do you not like it? I I don't know if you're allowed to like publicly say what's your personal opinion?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

It goldbelly was a lifeline, and they've been an amazing partner because we started with Gold Belly at a time when we first opened, we got hit by hurricanes here on the coast. I only had two locations. We knew there was going to be an issue with people getting down here, and I had to figure out if people couldn't get here, I was gonna get my pot to them. And I started figuring out how to ship it on my own, and then I saw Gold Belly and I thought, oh my gosh. And they were created specifically for Nama Pop shops, niche food in in regional places to be able to have the ability to ship nationwide because they would handle all the logistics, the marketing, the customer service, all of that. So they were wonderful. And we wound up signing up with them and going on board with them right in February of 2020. So as you can imagine, right before everything closed for COVID. So I mean, it was just enormous for us during those years because people couldn't go to restaurants, so they were ordering from Gold Valley, and it was really fantastic for us. But what we saw too is we gained a lot of customers and we kept them because we've never seen the numbers really dip that much, right? For us, it really gave us this small period of time to have exposure to so many more people to introduce topsel steamer too.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

That is amazing because when I and you know, gold belly obviously when people get onto gold belly, they're expecting that it's gonna be a little bit more expensive, right? And when I order uh bagels from places in New Jersey, or like when I order nuggets from garden catering in New Jersey, like or in Connecticut, like these are the things that I get on there, and I'm like, I want this so badly that I will pay what it takes to get it, and I understand it's gonna be a little bit more. Do you find that those consumers are they repeat customers, or is it kind of like an occasion, I'll buy it once and then not again?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

So we really have a combination. We have super customers, a lot of repeat customers. We find that people love to gift Topsu Steamer.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Oh, yeah.

Exposure, Advisors, And Growth Bumps

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Because it's a unique gift, it's fun. So for us, the holidays in gifting is really, really big for Goldbelly.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

I love that. Yeah, and but I will say, for everyone out there, be careful about gifting gold belly. I one time had someone gift me gold belly and it got delivered to my house the day after I went on vacation and I didn't know about it, and it sat on my front porch for four days, and then I came home to just like an absolute mess, and I was so sad. But I mean, obviously, I didn't tell them, I just expressed incredible gratitude because they were just trying to surprise me with that.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

We we uh we learned that lesson in the beginning. So often since there's something in the process now if you're gifting it, the recipient can pick the date they'd like to receive a perishable gift.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yes, that's the way to do it.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

They don't have to know it, but they're receiving a perishable gift and they can pick the date.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

I love how you make it all inclusive too, because if you go to Goldbelly, and you guys should go to Goldbelly and check out their listings. It's like there's lobster claw crackers, there's hammers, there's I mean, like you make it a fun experience, not just like, hey, here's this bucket of seafood, now figure out how to eat it. You make it a very uh uh great like gift in a box, uh party in a box kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, and I think you hit for us, yes, we have we're more than a food concept. We have premium, wonderful, fresh, delicious seafood, but it also really is an experience. One of the things I've noticed is every so many people have an emotion tied around this type of meal. Whatever however you, whether yours is crawfish or clam bake in the northeast or low country boil, there's just an emotion in the story that people like to tell around this site, this type of meal because they're connected to it, because it is something that you share and you experience with others around the table, different from any of the other meals that you typically have. So there's just this extra piece of this product that people really love and feel emotionally attached to.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah. Now, Danielle, I would be remiss because I mean, you have such a fascinating story, and we could sit here and talk for like three hours about your journey because it's been amazing. And I've learned so much. But I'd love to just ask you about your philosophy of the guest experience. Of what do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays?

SPEAKER_00 15:49

So for me, it's how you make the customer feel. So that's whatever point in the interaction, how have you made that customer feel? That's along the lines. I'm definitely a student of the Danny Meyer, you know, Enlightened Hospitality. Set your team.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Like that book right there, right behind you.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

I just had a new bookshelf and I put it over there, I'd walk over and get it. So then you know it's 51% about how you made the customer feel, and 49% about what the product you actually gave them. So for us, it is all about how have we made you feel from the moment that you opened our front door, you picked up our menu, you spoke to us on the phone, you watched the experience. We want you to already feel like you've had an above average, like this meal is going to be above average premium, something you're never gonna forget before you take bite number one. And I think that that is exactly how you have to look at the customer experience.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

I love that. And every channel, like just make it ooze with hospitality. And that is such a powerful concept, not to just, hey, here's your food, hope it's good, but in every interaction before that, you know, and that's actually at one point, there's a large customer that we work with now who used to use a long-form survey. And uh, the CEO got up there and was talking with the company. He was like, I don't get it. We do when they place the order, it's frictionless. When we give them the food, it's frictionless. When we do the service, it's frictionless, and yet we ask them for their feedback, and it's like this big, long, clunky thing. He's like, That's why we love ovation because uh it is still part of the guest experience. And so looking at every single thing from soup to nuts, from beginning to end, from checking out your website until post-service, make it all ooze with hospitality. I think that's just like such good advice there, Danielle.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah, it even comes down to for me, like the cardstock that your menus on, right? Like, yeah, how are you feeling that? Is that still like a premium? Because we're a premium product, right? So are you feeling like you're getting that premium experience? And we also get one extra. I think it's such a great opportunity. I mentioned it as an obstacle before where we have to educate the customer, but it's also an opportunity to give, I see that behind you too, unreasonable hospitality, right? So it's that opportunity to go in there and just spend a little extra time with the customer. And I think my philosophy is we should take that opportunity every single time because that's gonna create um a lifelong customer.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Amen. Love that. Danielle, who's someone in the restaurant industry that we should be following who deserves innovation?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

I would say right now, I think the Veridays, Don and Navan with CleanEats, are an amazing story and an amazing couple. So if you look them up, they're also Wilmington as well. They started as two bodybuilders who were always looking and searching for a way to have a clean meal, and they have created quite a brand. I know they're well over 150 locations, I believe. And they have also direct to consumer, just a great couple, and they live here in Wilmington, North Carolina.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Oh, very cool. Yeah, I checked them out, and uh yeah, that looks like a great brand. So Clean Eats with a Z.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Clean Eats with a Z. Yes. Awesome. Yes.

Gifting, Experience Design, And Retention

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Well, Danielle, where can people go to find and follow you and Topsuil Steamer?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yes. Well, topselsteamer.com is where you'll find all of the information about us as a brand and our menu. You'll also have the opportunity to order from one of our 11 locations, but also have it shipped to you nationally through Goldbelly or uh to gift it to someone you love if you'd like as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Awesome. And are you active on LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

I am. Yes. You can find me on LinkedIn, Danielle Mann.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Okay, and that's M-A-H-O-N.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

M-A-H-O-N. Like I always have to say it, like McMahon without the Mick.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

There you go. Well, Danielle, for showing us a journey of resilience and that the power of just keeps swimming is still alive. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Thank you so much, Zach. I really appreciate you having me here today.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two question estimate-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.