SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Goates, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what's actually happening in your restaurants and exactly how to improve while driving revenue. Learn more at ovationup.com. And today we got a twofer. We got a left-right punch here. We got the jab jab uppercut. We got Fred LaFranc, who needs no introduction. If you don't know him, go check out his LinkedIn. If you're listening to this podcast, Fred Lafranc should be someone that you not only know and follow, but should be someone that as soon as you shake his hand, you love. He is the CEO and chaos strategist. He's a speaker. He's an investor. Results through strategy. He's on the board of like 30 different companies right now, invested in like 150. But I don't know. I'm out of date because I haven't he hasn't talked in uh three minutes here. So I may be behind on that. Also joining is Christina Wiltse, who is an executive coach, a transformation architect, and I love this title of a life alchemist. And together they are the co-hosts of the Executive and the Mystic Podcast, a phenomenal podcast, one that I feel like everyone should listen to, regardless of what your role is. It's inspirational, it's informational, and it gives you new frameworks to look at life and business. And that is the longest intro I've ever done because there's so much to talk about with you two. But thanks for coming on the podcast. We're excited to be here, Zach. Thank you for having us. So Christina, I want to point this first question at you because Fred obviously the podcast is called The Executive and the Mystic. Fred being the executive with some mysticism, and you being the mystic with obviously some executivisms. So as we're thinking about uh leadership and balancing execution and intuition, for restaurant leaders listening right now, where uh they're sitting there being like, Zach, intuition is a little bit fluffy. I'm the COO. I need to like do stuff. How do you balance that? How do you coach people to balance the intuition and execution?

SPEAKER_02: 2:24

Absolutely. So I think it's a really important thing to recognize when we're in a decision-making process. When is it that we allow that intuition to come in? And when is it that we decide on the execution? The execution I see is kind of a post after you've made a decision. So the real question I always have for leaders is what does that decision-making process look like? Some people have very kind of standard ways of more black and white, like pros and cons, or oh, this is the way we've always done it, or many, many different ways that we kind of decide, whether it's based on current principles, outdated strategies and principles. Sometimes we make decisions based off of. A lot of the times we may spend forever in analysis, paralysis, and then finally get that gut check that just says, okay, we're gonna go this way. This is the decision we're gonna make, right? So when people want to understand intuition as a fundamental concept, I say, well, there may be some stigma around that word, but you're using it all the time. It's coming into you all the time. We just need to rename it into things that feel a bit better. Sometimes it's that good.

SPEAKER_00: 3:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 3:31

That's exactly it. That's exactly it, right? And that's what that's what Fred and I try and do is try and demystify a lot of the things that we know is intuition or we feel like and be able to make it so that people can actually say, oh yeah, I actually am making a gut, uh there's a gut check that I have here. I can feel something is off here. I don't know why. Is it my mind that's telling me that it's off? Is it my gut? Is it my heart? I don't know. But something's telling me that something is off. I'm gonna go investigate that. And then as a result of that, I'm going to make a decision based on that. So the more that we can kind of demystify and destigmatize the idea of intuition, the fact that it is absolutely inextricable from our life and our decision-making process, the better.

SPEAKER_00: 4:13

But what about those leaders who are maybe lacking a little self-confidence? And they're like, is this intuition? Is it not? Like, that's really why we get into analysis paralysis, right? Is because we are afraid that we don't have enough decision to trust our gut because we've got self-doubts. And all humans have self-doubts, maybe aside from a couple, maybe one who runs the country. But like, I feel like everyone should have a little bit of self-doubt of what we're doing. So, how do you shake that out with the self-doubt? What would you do if you put your hands on the COO, the CEO, the CMO's shoulders? And if they're saying, Christina, I don't know if I'm the right person for this. I don't know if I'm doing a good job. What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_02: 4:59

What I would tell them, one of my favorite things to talk to people about, and we have an episode about this, is called you have to get to the right altitude in order to be able to have the right attitude. And we talk a lot about like, oh, I'm gonna give you a 50,000 foot view or I'm in the weeds. We use this terminology all the time when it comes to looking at a problem, but we rarely use it when we look at ourselves. And I think that when we're able to turn that lens to ourselves and be like, oh, I don't have the confidence, it's like, yeah, that's because you're flying at like 500 feet and you're feeling everything that's coming, you're feeling all the you're flying too slow, you're being too self-critical. All of these things are coming in to make it so that you can't have enough altitude on your own perspective and you can't change and shift the way that you see yourself such that you feel less confident. You feel like you're gonna fall and hit the ground at any point. And so, how is it that you change your altitude? We talk about meditation as a very common way of doing that. That might seem very woo for a lot of people, or you know, that might seem out there, but that's a wonderful way and very quick way for people who practice it or who are just starting to practice it to be like, I'm just gonna get an observer state here because I am way too close to this to be able to see myself clearly.

SPEAKER_00: 6:08

And Freddie, you've been in a lot of tough decisions and you've been the in charge of a lot of tough decisions. And when you look at the decisions that you've made, how have you balanced that? There are certain things that spreadsheets can't always tell you. When you look at certain menu changes or a new leader hire or shifting a brand, like these are things that you have to use your intuition because the data is only going to tell you so much.

SPEAKER_01: 6:36

It's funny that you asked that because the impetus of this podcast came as a result of having these discussions between Christina and I about what happens when your thinking is no longer effective. Sometimes what got you here won't get you going forward. And it's frustrating for a leader because you go, Everything's been working great. Now it's stopped working. What happened? Why is it no longer effective? So we came up with the acronym of ABCs, where you align yourself with a higher principle and a higher purpose so that you're going with the tide, you're not swimming against the tide. That's number one. Number two is to find balance in life by embracing the paradox. Things that appear opposing, sometimes they're just two sides of the same coin. And the third one is coherence, which we sort of touched on, which is where you have your head, your heart, and your gut together in alignment with one another. That's coherence so that you move forward with greater certainty and conviction and courage in terms of what you're trying to do. Understanding that at all times, back to the higher altitude, you stay above the phrase so you're aware of what's going on and making sure that you don't get sucked into some rabbit hole of your own thinking. A lot of leaders have a tendency to overthink things instead of pausing and say, wait a minute, what does my heart tell me about this? Right. And spend some time. That's where the meditation comes in. Just opening up your heart and say, What do I feel about what's going on here? Because the wisdom of the heart is a real thing. And your head's different. Your head's about logic, but your heart's about emotion and empathy and understanding the situation people find themselves in. And then the gut is a third brain center that also gives it a little whisper that says, This is safe or this is not safe. And when you put all three together, it's an unbeatable combination. So all we're really talking about is discovering the humanity that we all have and bringing it forward and saying this is part of how you should make making decisions. And we have found it to be a very effective way to provide leadership for an organization.

SPEAKER_00: 8:30

If you feel misaligned and you're with a leadership team, it's hard to feel aligned when you're not aligned yourself because you're not quite sure. Maybe you feel some alignment with one third of it, but not the other two thirds because you're not totally aligned. If you aren't feeling aligned, how do you gain alignment with your leadership team? Because sometimes you can't necessarily take that weak meditation trip in India before you have some big decisions to make and you need to get your leadership team aligned to do that. What would you recommend if you're feeling misaligned and you simultaneously need to align with your leadership team?

SPEAKER_01: 9:07

I think the starting point is having the shared vision of what you're trying to accomplish and be keenly aware that all businesses exist in an environment that is has external forces, not just internal forces. So there's two types of alignment. One is the alignment to look at the reality of what's going on outside of you to make sure you're aware of all the things that are the dynamics. I always give an example of we're in a whitewater world. You can't control the external forces, but you can learn to read them and anticipate them a little bit. The internal alignment is where you're able to move forward with a little bit more conviction. If you have a shared vision and a shared purpose and you're open with people about it, and by the way, just because you're the leader doesn't mean you're right. You could be certain, but not you may not be right. And so you could also disagree and commit to somebody else's point of view because they see things you don't see. This is where you really take the advantage of the fact that all the people on your team have a different perspective of a different point of view. The key thing is to make sure you're not making decisions based out of fear. Fear cannot make a safe decision. Never. Fear only makes a decision for self-protection, which at times gets you into a bigger problem because it's ego-led as opposed to principle-led. And when you align with principle and you have a clarity about what you're trying to achieve, I don't know if you ever saw the movie The Legend of Beggar Vance, which is based on the Pagapagita. It's an old ancient Vedic script that's 8,000 years old, but there's a putt that Matt Damon takes. And as he looks at this screen and he sees the flag, he sees this little golden path that says this is where the ball is going to go. And that's what you find in leadership. You have pattern recognition, you find the path through all this nuance that's going on around you, and with that kind of certainty, you're able to go forward. And in that movie, they talk about finding your authentic swing. In life, we're talking about finding your authentic self. And that's really what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

And what would you say, Christina? Fred is a very soft-nosed executive. What would you say to like a hard-nosed executive who's like, ah, meditation crap? I'm not going to do that. How does that executive, but let's say they want to. I want to learn how to do it because I think that's the first step. Obviously, meditation doesn't work if the whole time you're sitting there just being like, this isn't working, this isn't working. What are some easy ways to start the meditation? I don't mean easy, like quick and simple, but like step one.

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

So this is a great question. And this is something that I feel so strongly about when it comes to trying to introduce people to what their meditation is. Because if you go and you, I mean, it's exactly like getting a suit. Like you can buy a suit off the rack, or you can go maybe get it tailored and you can get something that's like custom made for you. Everybody's system is so completely different.

SPEAKER_00: 11:41

There are people by the way, Fred, just let you know. I don't know if you heard that first part. You actually can buy stuff off the rack. I know everything Fred has is custom, but let you know, those big buildings, they have clothes inside that you can buy. Everything Fred has is custom made to him because he's Fred Lafranc. But anyway, okay, go ahead, Christina. I just, I just I saw Fred glaze over for a little bit and I was assuming it wasn't the London, uh, the London uh gentlemen, I guess.

SPEAKER_02: 12:09

So for those of us who do buy things off the rack, we're gonna go and we're gonna say, I'm gonna go buy, I'm gonna go on insight time or I'm gonna uh on any of any app or something like that. And I'm gonna learn how to meditate, right? And I'm gonna take something, and this isn't gonna work for me because I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna get really bored. My mind is not gonna be wanting to do it. And guess what? Some people can't even see images in their minds, some people's minds, and whether it's from conditioning or whether the way that they're built, we all have extremely different internal spaces. And so what I say to someone who's step one, like, what is it that you're trying to do? The desire to want to recognize that meditation is effectively about becoming an observer and getting a different altitude and perspective on your life. That's it. And if you choose to do that, if that's the summary of what meditation is, it has a lot of auxiliary benefits, you know, nervous system regulation, things along those lines, physiological benefits to doing it too. But if effectively you're trying to find an observer or perspective on your own experience that's in your mind, things along those lines, when you can, with just that desire, you can do that through meditation. You can do that through seeking out somebody who can maybe see different perspectives. There are many different avenues to do it, but the desire to recognize that maybe your story and maybe the way you see things is not the only way. And maybe there is another way besides even you have a million executive coaches or something like that. And they're all kind of seeing something through a different, through similar lenses, is you say, I'm willing to look at something and develop the ability to see a different perspective within myself. That desire is the first step. The second step is to recognize that not all meditations are created equal for you.

SPEAKER_01: 13:49

One thing is uh what meditation does is really a step one in emotional intelligence. And emotional intelligence, which has been discussed ad nauseum in leadership, is a critical role to have or a capacity, is self-awareness. And meditation does that. You become the observer of yourself, that's self-awareness, the moment by moment self-observation of one's thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. That's the description I use for self-awareness. And once you start understanding the impulses we feel, why does this person irritate me, or why does this situation bother me, or what's going on, and then you're able to have self-management where you choose a response. You don't just react, you choose a response. It allows you to then be aware of your sort of social awareness, what's going on around me, and have relationship management. As a leader, it's all about relationship management. You want people to perform in a certain way. The only way you can do that is to start with yourself. If you want a group to act a certain way, then you as the leader have to act a certain way in order for them to do that. Otherwise, if you have a chaotic leadership style, it's a mess. And a leader is a lighthouse in the middle of a storm. And in today's world, it's always rage. We're a tweet away from disaster. And so there's something that's always raging going on. And as a leader, you need to be able to show people that kind of conviction and flexibility. And that's why I go back to the ABCs that we talked about in our podcast. That process really works very, very well.

SPEAKER_00: 15:07

And I think part of it too is also understanding. I love this. So basically, what we're saying is like everyone needs ice cream, but you might not like the vanilla. But like, find what works for you. And for me, I think I find that there's like a variety. Some of my rituals include prayer and scripture study in the morning in the hot tub. And I'd go to the hot tub because when I used to do it at my desk, there was just too many pings. I couldn't do it there. In a hot tub, it's I do have a floating desk, but it's a good place to meditate in the morning prior to sunrise. And then I've also found a good place for meditation for me is with groups and advisors, people like Fred. You know, if Fred and I have regular calls, because I'm a verbal processor, something that I didn't realize about myself until last year. And talking through things is a form of meditation for me because it forces my brain to connect the dots to send it out of my mouth. And then I have someone who I trust, like Fred there on the other side, who's like, okay, here's what I'm hearing, but this is what my experience is showing. And it adds to that. Basically, what I'm saying is it's not just sitting on a floor in a room with no decoration. There's a lot more to it than that. And it's about more so the outcome of alignment as opposed to the input of like Zen fingers together pulling energy, right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:29

Exactly. Because ultimately, if we are looking for an outcome which says, I feel that I'm aligned, when I teach people basic meditation, we got to get over the to-do list. There's always going to be this deliberative mind that is right there that wants to keep you, and this is what I'm supposed to be doing today, or this is the problem I need to figure out. And ultimately, that's good. That's great. If you can find some quiet time to think about your to-do list, wonderful. I'm really happy. But there's so many amazing benefits if you can go to a slightly higher altitude to see yourself from a slightly different perspective. And the more you practice, the higher you get, or you start to move into different places. Maybe you're not just watching your own thoughts. Maybe you're doing what Fred said earlier and doing coherence, where you're like looking at your heart space, like literally you're just concentrating on your heart space. And by doing that, the physiological changes that you can feel inside your body are incredible. And if you just stick with it for a couple of minutes and then you do a couple more minutes, you start to see all of these benefits and all these signs that we're just really kind of starting to understand about how the body works when you take the default network off, when you stop just thinking in a beta brain state, and you start to try and activate the other states of your brain and the coherence of your heart, your mind, and your gut.

SPEAKER_00: 17:51

Yeah, I love that. And oh my gosh, I'm I'm just looking at the time here. We are out of time, but this has been like just such a awesome spoonful of wisdom from your oceans of knowledge. But before we part, Fred, we'll start with you, then Christina will go to you. Who is someone that we should be following on social to either help us create a better guest experience or become a better leader?

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

You know what, Zach? I'm gonna say you.

SPEAKER_00: 18:15

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01: 18:17

Okay, because you've made a couple of statements today that show that you have gone through a process of developing self-awareness. You've learned your learning style, you see counsel and advice, you have a daily practice of prayer and scripture reading that grounds you in order to prepare yourself for a very dynamic environment. And that's enough of an example for anyone else to follow. If anyone else could follow those few things to start developing that emotional intelligence, it'd be what I would recommend. So easily I'd say it should be you. Dang. Well, honored, Fred. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00: 18:44

Christina.

SPEAKER_02: 18:45

I'm gonna say the self-plug, though. Am I allowed to say that? I'm gonna say follow the executive and the mystic. We are on TikTok, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Our YouTube, our podcast is on our YouTube channel at the Executive and the Mystic Podcast. So follow us there and you can hear more wisdom.

SPEAKER_00: 19:02

Awesome. Well, Fred and Christina for bringing the executive out of the mystic and the mystic out of the executive. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you both for joining us on Give an Ovation. Thank you. Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two question estimates-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.