SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Oates, and each week I get to chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what's actually happening in your restaurants and exactly how to improve while driving revenue. Learn more at ovationup.com. And I am excited. This podcast is two years in the chambers, and we're finally getting to record it. Kayla Dillon, for those of you who don't know, you're welcome. I'm about to introduce to you a total rock star. For those of you know, you know why I'm so excited to have her on. She is a fractional CMO and a brand consultant. She's had an amazing career in the hospitality industry. I'm so excited to have her on. And the reason that this podcast has been so hard to schedule isn't just because she's so busy, but it's because every time we get on to record, we just start talking because she is just a joy to talk to. And uh all of a sudden we'll get 20 minutes into a 30-minute meeting and we're like, we don't have time now for a podcast. And so let's reschedule. And we've done this like four times. So Kayla, even though we're 15 minutes late because we started talking again, I'm excited that we actually are hitting record here. With that introduction, how are you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:25

I am good. And I'm very excited to finally be on this podcast as well. We talk, like you were saying, a lot, and it's always a great conversation. I've always respected you as a person in this industry, as well as just a good human being. So I'm really excited to be a part of this today. And yeah, let's get it rocking and rolling.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

Yeah, I mean, it's always fun to talk to you, whether or not it's recorded. Sometimes it's better if it's not recorded, but we are here and this time it's recorded.

SPEAKER_01: 1:53

So no AirPods, but we're gonna make this happen. Internet's going in and out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58

We're figured it out, Kayla. So talk to me about what do you do as a fractional CMO and brand consultant?

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

That's a really great question. Um, right now I'm doing a lot of technology since one of the brands that I support uh launched an app that's not uh working appropriately. So it's just a lot like being a normal CMO. Each day is a little different, keeps it exciting, but I get to support multiple brands, which I really like. And the idea of being a fractional CMO, what really excites me about it is kind of that nuance of being able to do multiple things and being able to help multiple brands. But the idea is to be that support. A lot of brands, they don't know what they don't know. So being able to come in and help advise to help stabilize for them to get to that next level, whether that's helping to train the team, helping them uncover areas of opportunity for financial improvement and help them get to that next stage in their evolution to then eventually be able to say goodbye. Having a high churn rate for me means that I'm doing my job well. Because my goal is not to be there forever. My goal is to set them up for success. That's a lot about what I do, is just making sure they're set up.

SPEAKER_00: 3:13

So many brands that need that because there's a lot of stuff where it's like, I can get people that can run it. I just don't know what's the best way to do this and to get it set up. And so really powerful to bring you in to help out to get things rolling with a marketing initiative with a tech initiative, and especially someone who you're so well versed in so many different things, having used a lot of different platforms and things like that. So, anyway, it's super amazing to see what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01: 3:39

It can be daunting, right? To open up your email or your LinkedIn if you're a CEO or a franchise owner, you've got 10 units, 15 units, and you've got all of these things saying they're the greatest and they're the best, right? And maybe they see an email that comes through from Nations Restaurant News and they say, Oh, Chili's just got this really great thing. And they think, oh, I need that. Well, that may not be the right fit, right? And so what ends up happening, which is bad for the brand, bad for the tech company, and ultimately bad for the consumer, is that they get a Maserati when maybe they just need a scooter. So they spend all this money on a technology, and they don't either have the bandwidth or the knowledge or expertise to be able to execute it to get the insights that they need to then enhance the guest experience. So they end up getting burned by technology, burned by sales, and then they don't innovate and grow. And so that's where I see a lot of brands, especially legacy brands like an Eric's that's been around for 50 plus years. Again, you get these things and you think they're gonna be great. You got to get franchisee buy-in. Sometimes you just get used to the technology. And so you're like, oh, it's gonna be too much of a lift for me to tear all these things apart. And you just need someone who's been there to help kind of guide and direct on what's the best next step.

SPEAKER_00: 4:58

It might be the right technology, but if you set up the right thing in the wrong way, it's still the wrong thing. But setting up the right thing in the right way and having gone through the lessons and you don't have to learn them, wow, that's powerful. So all of this is really talking about the guest experience. And so I'd love for you to dive into what do you think are the most important aspects of guest experience?

SPEAKER_01: 5:20

Well, I think it's changed. We talked about this a little bit prior to this, but it's changed, right? I think hospitality, the way that we've looked at it was, you know, good food, good drink, good time, good service. But really, what people are looking for is the humanity of a brand. You know, they're they're looking for a connection, right? That's why people say, I want to be able to have that personalization when it comes to like marketing and how a brand communicates to me. And that's really hard to do at scale, really hard to do. But that reason is because the guest wants to feel like you know them. You look at loyalty programs, and I think loyalty programs in general need a full overhaul. But the whole idea of it is so that you can know your guest and you can talk to them about the things that matter to them. And a lot of times loyalty programs become just a one size fits all, where I, for example, maybe I'm a vegan. And if you send me an email about a cheeseburger, that's not gonna make me feel like you know me or that we have a connection, right? And it is pivotal today to get as many touch points as you can to connect with that consumer and finding them kind of wherever they are and making sure that you're responding again with that empathy, that knowledge, and making them feel special and important. I mean, don't you like feeling special and important?

SPEAKER_00: 6:44

Amen, right? And I think one of the things that we were talking about beforehand is that the guest expectation is perfection. But the beautiful thing is that from the restaurant's perspective, it's not about perfection, it's about connection. And we strive for perfection, but perfection can be forgiven if we fall short, if there is a connection. And the same mistake that I meet someone for the first time, what if I say something rude? They're gonna be like, I don't like Zach. Now, if I have a friend who we've hung out two dozen times and I say the same exact thing, they may think either that's silly that he made that comment. Like, I know that's not what he actually thinks, or they may say, Zach, you know, I just want to let you know, like that hurt my feelings when you said that. And then I can apologize, but we've built that connection over two dozen times. And now what happens to our relationship when I say, Yes, you're right, that was a dumb thing for me to say. I'm sorry I said that, Kayla. Let me be better. Can you help me be better? Then all of a sudden, our friendship that goes from now we're friends two dozen times for a visit and two dozen times hanging out, and that like accelerates it to like 100 times because we've built that connection and that's what people want because no one is perfect, and everyone hates the people that are perfect, and they always look for the one thing that they can like get no, they're not perfect.

SPEAKER_01: 8:11

See, I got them completely, and it just strengthens the bond, right? I mean, I think sometimes we just get so in our own heads when it comes to business, right? Just in general, and especially I think when you're looking at a hospitality, like customer first business. We get so in the weeds and so complicated where it's like, think about you as a human. If this was a relationship, which is what it should be, you have a relationship with a customer, with a guest. Think about your own personal relationships. What matters to you when someone like Zach? Thank you for apologizing, by the way. I appreciate that. Really hurt my feelings. Now we can be stronger together. But you think about, you know, something like that and like what that would make me feel versus, again, getting kind of a spray and pray approach of like, oh, I'll do a LinkedIn thing saying, hey, sometimes you say things that hurt people's feelings, and well, I'm sorry if I've ever done that to you. That's not gonna make me feel good. It's not gonna make me feel like you understood that what you said hurt my feelings. It's just people being people. And sometimes people be people in in a bad way and they're annoying and things don't go well on both sides. But if you think about it from that perspective, I think the industry as a whole would grow and it would be more better because we need to move from just hospitality to humanity. Like I think that's key.

SPEAKER_00: 9:34

Amen. I love that. And in doing so, like I get that theory, but what are some tactics that you've seen that actually allow restaurants to improve the guest experience and to implement that humanity?

SPEAKER_01: 9:48

I think a big part of that, I think it's evolving, right? Especially when you look at AI. I think it's making it a lot easier to do a lot of these things, but it's changing for like rewards. Great example. Instead of just rewarding based on transaction, look at behavior, look at interests, look at those things that you're doing every day as a consumer and reward that, reward the frequency or the surprise and delight, right? Like, not just give options. That is how you're gonna move the needle, not just sending a, hey, here's$10 because you spent, you have a hundred points, here's a$10 reward. That is not the way of the future. If you as a brand or even as a technology company, if you're not already thinking about how do we connect based on behaviors and interests, you're gonna be left behind because I'm telling you, that's what the consumer wants. Even looking at, again, with AI, last night I needed to make dinner and I could not find, I was searching through Pinterest, could not find my recipe. I went to Chat GPT and said, Hey, I'm looking and put in, these are my ingredients. This is what I'm looking for. And it gave me probably the best meal. I mean, my husband had like two servings of it. I had two servings of it. I mean, it was really good. I had an interest and wait, what was it? It was a turkey, I'll send it to you. It was turkey meatloaf, cheddar ranch, mashed potatoes, and green beans that had all kinds of seasoning on them.

SPEAKER_00: 11:24

It was Kayla, you are a marketing powerhouse and you have time to cook a three-course meal. Oh my gosh. And your great mom, like, this is too much, Kayla. Too much.

SPEAKER_01: 11:34

Thank you. You're making me blush over here. But we'll send out a survey to the kids and the husband and see you get the smiley face or yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00: 11:43

But it but truly though, like, that's where technology is. And I just was able to show you some of the back end of ovation and see like how much AI is able to help drive that connection. Now, what it comes down to though is giving it the right instructions and having the right inputs of data so it's most accurate. If you just said, give me a mashed potato and turkey meatloaf and green bean recipe, it wouldn't have done that. And that's part of the power that we've seen of ovation is leveraging. We have saved over one million guests. One million people had a bad experience at a restaurant, they were recovered with ovation, and they verifiably came back into that restaurant and spent money. The reason I bring that up is because it's so key that we learn from that context what were the things that brought them back in. And that's part of what we leverage to help brands recover these guests, and it needs to feel personal, and it is personal, but just because AI is helping doesn't mean that your staff is off the hook. Right. You still need that not last mile delivery, but last foot delivery. That's what is going to be the final cherry on top of all the other things that went into that guest experience and all the technology and everything else, it still comes down to humanity, not just of the guest, but of the people.

SPEAKER_01: 13:10

Well, and even talking through this idea of like connection, right? When you look at it from an organizational standpoint, operations, marketing, and technology, they need to connect to give the customer the best experience. And I see so many times I've been in those rooms where everyone's siloed, right? Everyone has their own initiative, everyone has their own favorite priority or their own points of view. What it ends up doing is fracturing, right, the organization and never letting it move to that next level because they're stuck and they've got to connect, right? Whether that is, again, a specific type of technology or an SOP or an LTO, and being able to leverage that internal organizational connection to then connect better and more efficiently with that guest. That's what should happen. But today it's still very much fractured, siloed, inefficient. And it's a big challenge that needs to be solved.

SPEAKER_00: 14:16

And that's why I'm so glad that you're out there helping restaurants do this. So who deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry? Who's someone that we should be following?

SPEAKER_01: 14:25

Oh gosh, that maybe people aren't already following.

SPEAKER_00: 14:28

Or maybe they are. Who do you turn to that you think is doing some great stuff?

SPEAKER_01: 14:33

Well, God, there's so many. I really enjoy what Chris Muns posts. I think he's very insightful. I've worked with Chris and work with him now, so that's not a plug to him, but but genuinely, the part of the reason is because we connected on LinkedIn. I enjoyed his content, he enjoyed mine, and we started to work together because of it. He brings a really unique perspective. But if I were to actually give advice on like who I think we, especially as leaders in this industry, should follow, we should follow the ones that are the up and coming, right? The ones that need our support, our mentorship. Cause we know whether it's LinkedIn or any type of social or reviews, right? It's all about volume. Like the more followers you have, and those are the things that help move you into an algorithm and help you connect with more people. So I would say, like, start looking for some of those up-and-comers. Let's support them.

SPEAKER_00: 15:37

Love that. And first of all, Chris Muns, love him. He's just such a great human, as well as really, really sharp in the industry. And Kayla, where can people go to find and follow you?

SPEAKER_01: 15:48

Well, LinkedIn's the best place to find me, although I'm not as active recently because I've been really busy trying to start my own company. But there will be a website coming soon. It will be called goattorched.com. So g-o-t-o-r-c-h-d.com. And that is where you'll be able to find the variety of services that we use to help brands, both on the technology side and on the restaurant brand side, to take those fractured silos, burn them down, and help build that bridge of connection.

SPEAKER_00: 16:23

Awesome. Love that so much. And Kayla for reminding us that from family to friends to food, it's all about connection. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Givingovation.

SPEAKER_01: 16:35

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 16:37

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question SMS-based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.