SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience podcast. I'm your host, Zach O, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what is actually happening in your restaurants and exactly how to improve while driving revenue. Learn more at ovationup.com. And today I am so excited because we have Melissa Richard Person here who did I get that full name correctly, Melissa?

SPEAKER_00: 0:37

You did, you did, but a lot of my restaurant friends call me MRP. So feel free to use that.

SPEAKER_02: 0:42

Okay. MRP. I mean, if you have followed her on LinkedIn, you just know the incredible career that she's had. And she has been, as we were talking about right before we hit record, not just at the table, but behind the steering wheel of some extremely influential brands at extremely pivotal times. We're talking brand director of KSC. We're talking almost a dozen years as the uh over at Papa John's, where she finished off as chief brand officer. She's been CMO, marketing lead. She advises different VCs and startups and companies. And now she's at third arm consulting, working with all kinds of brands, helping them to improve their brand voice, their marketing presence. And so I am so excited, Melissa, to have you on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36

Thank you, Zach. I'm excited to be here. I feel really fortunate because you've talked to some of my favorite people that I've worked with throughout my career, including Justin Falciola recently, who he and I worked together at Top of John's, and Perry Rogers, who I got the honor of working with when during our time with Shaquille O'Neal as our brand ambassador. So yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00

Well, you are in good company right in here. Now, as we think about the guest experience, first of all, I don't know how much you're allowed to share, but I would love to just ask your opinion on how was it during the Papa John's transformation from having Papa John be the face and the head to not, as you're running the brand, how do you transition when the main thing, the logo is no longer there? How did you do that?

SPEAKER_00: 2:34

So I use a phrase a lot called brand DNA. And really the core of my consulting practice now is helping companies unlock their brand DNA and use it to drive everything from innovation to loyalty to content to products and growth. And that was really what we needed to focus on. We needed to focus on really what was Papa John's authentic DNA. And brand DNA is really the core of how you deliver a differentiated guest experience as well. If you know your brand DNA, then you're going to behave in a way that feels natural, authentic, but also different.

SPEAKER_02: 3:27

But I mean, I feel like, especially in that situation, and everyone faces this in one way or another. I think this one is just one that is so textbook of the main leader is gone. Like if Jimmy John was kicked out of Jimmy John's, right? It's like part of it is just because of the name, it's like that feels like so much of the brand DNA is that individual. So how do you separate that? How did you guys tease out what is an individual and what is the brand?

SPEAKER_00: 4:00

Well, specifically, what this is a lesson for really is any concept that has a founder at the center, you have to understand what the qualities are that everyone believes in. And so just like any other brand that has a founder at their center at some point, you have to say, okay, that person can't be everywhere every time. So what are the things that really are uniquely ours that don't belong to any of our competitors? Great example. Papa John's believed in and still does, you always get a little something extra when you order from that brand. And that could be the pepperoncini and garlic sauce were always the thing that everybody talked about, and especially garlic sauce. Garlic sauce has its own following. I mean, let's be clear. And one of the things that we did as a result was we really leaned into garlic sauce. And the current CMO there is doing an amazing job of bringing that into the TikTok age and capitalizing on trends and doing really interesting things. And we started with launching spicy garlic sauce, for instance. But that all came back to it wasn't, oh, let's just crassly try to get a little bit more money by launching a spicy garlic sauce. It was, gosh, okay, if we always give a little something extra, and one of the things everybody can get their arms around is garlic sauce, and everybody talks about it and loves it. Well, then let's keep extending it and let's celebrate the people who love it. We actually got Chrissy Teagan, I remember, even in the midst of some of the craziness we had going on. Chrissy Teagan posted about the brand, and we quickly had this amazing social media coordinator who jumped into action, got our graphic design department to mock up a label of our garlic sauce that looked like the label, but it said Chrissy's garlic sauce, John hands off, put it on a jug of garlic sauce, and sent that along with a bunch of other swag. We were all over her Instagram stories, and you know how much money people pay for something like that. But it was a little thing. It was rooted in something that was unique to the brand, but more than that, it was rooted in this idea of always giving a little something extra, which is a part of the brand DNA.

SPEAKER_02: 6:47

I love that because there are things in every brand that you are doing right now, which are a little bit different. And I love that you just stop at the garlic sauce or at the pepperoncini. It's like, no, no, no. It's like, why do we do that? And that's part of the DNA. What is one step before that is like that's just what it looks like. But why is it? Like, what are the roots of it? Not just what do the leaves look like? And I love that when you get to the DNA and the reason for things being as opposed to just that they are, that's really powerful to because then you could leverage that in so many ways. And you know, why does the spicy garlic talks, why did that feel authentic? Because it was rooted in the thing that is authentic, which is giving a little bit more. And so I would challenge every listener, and I think this is a challenge I'm gonna come away with. I know what we do better than anyone else, but the question is, why do we do that better than anyone else? What do we believe that makes it that way? And then how do we talk about that more? How do we lean into that more? How do we do more innovation around that, marketing around that? I love that, Melissa. It's super, super powerful.

SPEAKER_00: 8:06

And it can be really challenging to get to that very bottom level. I often joke that sometimes right before the breakthrough is when somebody wants to throw their computer at me. Because we're just, we keep saying, no, no, no, but but why is that? Okay, but really, is that something that only we could do? Only our brand could do, or could anybody do that? Could a competitor do that? Okay, then it's not the why. It's not the part of our DNA.

SPEAKER_02: 8:37

Or even if a competitor can do that, is it authentic to them to do it, or does it seem like they're just being a copycat?

SPEAKER_00: 8:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 8:46

That is just so powerful. And and all of this, what this really comes down to, Melissa, is the guest experience. And it's making sure that the guest is having a great experience. And so you have had such an incredible career sitting frontline to top desk at these incredible brands. What do you think is one of the most important aspects of guest experience nowadays?

SPEAKER_00: 9:10

I think it's in the way that you deliver some signature moments. You know, think about welcome to Mo's. You know, you walk in the door and there's a signature greeting. I'm a bit of a geek when it comes to behavioral science. And there's something called the peak end rule. And that's about the fact that the two parts of the experience that someone's going to remember the most are the most emotionally engaging, either bad or great, and how it ends. And so there's always a signature moment that you can somehow bake into the end of your experience, whatever the end of that experience is, that can have incredible power in how you are seen from the whole of your guest experience. I think about one of the first brands in the food service industry that I got to work on was Olive Garden. And there's always those Andes Mints, and there is a cult of those Andes Mints. And I think there would be riots if they ever got rid of them because everyone talks about them. And it really was a signature moment near from the start of the brand. So it was always indifferentiated, but everybody would get excited. And if the server heard you talking about the mints, they'd bring you a load of them at the end. So what happens? Everybody's talking about, oh my gosh, we got so many more mints. Oh my gosh, we got mints. And they're giving them out to people. It's creating magic. But I think what ovation does as well is help guarantee that that end experience, especially if it didn't go well when they left the restaurant or they got their order, is it gives you an opportunity to still put that signature moment on the end. Because if you immediately get feedback that, oh, something didn't go well, and you know what your brand DNA is, then you can respond in a way that feels authentic and unique in saying, I'm sorry, we screwed up, this didn't go right. Here's how we're going to fix it. Here's what we're going to do for you. So having that immediate guest feedback is incredibly powerful. And if you match it with your brand DNA, it becomes a signature moment to build a loyal fan.

SPEAKER_02: 11:53

That's so true because one of the things that everyone is searching for, regardless of if it's naturally in your DNA or not, as a restaurant brand, is that connection, is that hospitality. And we have found that a guest who had a negative experience with proper service recovery is worth 24 times more than your average guest because they come in four times more often, they spend$5 more, they come in four and a half times more frequently, and they're 12 times more likely to leave you a five-star review. And so when you look at that data about what is it, and I think that when you get down to your brand DNA, then you take it down to just human DNA, we all want to feel important. We all want to feel connection. We all want to feel like we matter to someone. And every single interaction that makes us feel not important, like we don't matter to someone, creates an animosity that goes so much deeper than you just forgot my burger. It's no, no, no. I am not important enough for you to remember my burger. And so when I get home and I have my five burgers, and I get home and I open up the bag and there's four in there, that's more than just a I'm frustrated. It is a affront on who I am and what I'm searching for and feeling fulfilled and not just being filled.

SPEAKER_00: 13:20

You treated me like a number, you didn't treat me like a person, and that level of authenticity and that level of not just that, oh my gosh, you recognized me, but you gave me what felt like a personal response. I was it was a personal response as opposed to, oh well, you get that. How often does that form email just even infuriate you more? It is almost worse than if you didn't apologize at all. Like, oh, you just sent off the form email and that was it.

SPEAKER_02: 14:02

Yeah, absolutely. I think there is something interesting there to dive into the data of does a bad response, is a bad response less likely to win back an upset guest than no response. Anyway, I'm curious to dive into that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:19

Yeah, well, and that's where having a truly differentiated personality and tone that's built in your DNA makes a difference. Like for instance, I think I mentioned to you when we were chatting that I hate the word friendly in any sort of brand personality or DNA because it doesn't really tell you how to behave. But if I tell you that we are folksy or we're gregarious, or we're thoughtful, that gives you a different language, a different man, a different way to respond. So you think of what a folksy apology would be, or what a thoughtful apology would be, or a gregarious apology would be. And they each take on different shades of language, but they feel more human than if I just say be friendly.

SPEAKER_02: 15:21

That's really powerful. And I think that so much of this is so powerful because what we're talking about, uh again, it's like uh what the seed is will determine the plant. And if you're planting the truest, most clear thing that you can, then uh the uh closest to what you're looking for will will grow. It's just like AI. If I tell AI, here's a picture of someone, have them ride a horse. Uh it's like there's a lot that the AI has to assume. Now, if I say uh they're in Texas in the 1800s, riding a horse for a shootout with the sheriff, the AI will create an image that's much more clear. So too, we must be in how we're building our brains. The clearer we are in who we are, the more accurate everyone's gonna be able to respond to that. And I gotta tell you, Melissa, I enjoyed our conversation when we first met and like obviously looking into you, like very impressive. I have never written down so many to-dos. I'm sitting here, like, I've written down like four things to do. And so I hear I'm like, with Professor MRP here just getting my homework. No, but I appreciate it because I feel like anyone who's listening that's thinking about their brand should be uh taking uh notes furiously of like what do I need to do to improve? Because these kinds of tactics affect every other tactic that you will do. And so anyway, just really appreciate that. And speaking of tactics, I do want to just get to a couple of things that you have found that actually have improved the guest experience.

SPEAKER_00: 17:16

So I think as I was talking about having that unique signature ownable moment, you just have to exude the DNA of your brand. So, how do you figure out how to exude the DNA of your brand? If a small number of people are actually delivering on a great experience every day, then you need to not only have a great experience, but one that's going to drive brand love. And that means that how do you take the whole of the time that someone spends with you and demonstrate that you are uniquely you as a brand. So what's really great is that if you come up with things that you know you want people to say or do, or you want your team to experience in the time that they're with a guest in whatever space that is, or on your apps or in your third-party experiences, how do you reinforce those moments? And then what you can do with ovation is use those questions that you can ask the next day that you can send to see how well you're delivering on some of those unique things. We talked about Welcome to Moe's, and we talked about is there a signature goodbye, or is there something that you can do when someone brings the check that helps you remember them and take a little piece of your restaurant or your place home with you? Or is it something that you do within technology that you make it really easy for people to split the check if you are a concept that has a group of people, lots of groups of people dining together? I hope that a place like Magianos is thinking about how we can do a better job of delivering a check splitting app that people can pay and they can be in control and they can have all those uncomfortable conversations rather than feeling like they have to splay a litany of things to the server.

SPEAKER_02: 19:30

Totally, completely agree with that. And man, Melissa, the time has just flown by. I just looked at the clock. I didn't even realize that we're like over time here, but this has been such a great conversation. Last two questions. Who deserves innovation in the restaurant industry? Who is someone that we should be following?

SPEAKER_00: 19:47

I am so lucky to call this woman a friend. Her name is Carrie Diamond, and Carrie is the founder of a platform called Cherry Bomb. She's on Instagram at CarrieBomb, but all the Cherry Bomb channels should be a must follow because she covers restaurant people, food makers, beverage makers, content creators. And so if you're looking for ways to be unique and reinforce the DNA of your brand, you're going to hear from all sides of the industry, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 20:20

Wow. Yeah, I definitely just uh giving her a follow and reach out to her to bring on the podcast, just looking at what she does. Like, holy cow, she does some amazing content on there.

SPEAKER_00: 20:30

She's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02: 20:32

So awesome. Before we finish up, how do people find and follow you?

SPEAKER_00: 20:36

I am on LinkedIn, Melissa Richards person, Melissa Richards-person, and third arm consulting on LinkedIn. And then if you love the intersection of food, music, sports, and cats.

SPEAKER_02: 20:50

Oh, oh. Awesome. Well, for helping us not just understand what we do, but why we do it, and for giving me more homework than any other guest. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Give It Ovation.

SPEAKER_00: 21:18

Absolute pleasure, Zach. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 21:21

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two question SMS-based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.