SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Goates, and each week I have the privilege of chatting with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit loop restaurants, where you can learn what is actually happening in your restaurants and how to improve. Learn more at ovationup.com. I know I'm excited every single time, but today we have someone who is a marketing executive, a entrepreneur, a speaker, an author. I actually have his book right here, Unquit Forever. Keep yourself in the game. Not only that, but he has a blockbuster movie made from his life. Arjun Sen, welcome to the podcast. It's an honor to have you on. Thanks, Zach. Truly appreciate all the kind words you said. Well, as I was mentioning before we hit record, I've had so much fun going through your book and diving into your life and who you are in preparing for this. And I had a very good friend of mine, someone that I really respect in the industry, just sing your praises. And so I was like, I've got to meet this guy. And so it's great that we're finally able to connect here. But tell me a little bit about your marketing company first. Because I know that's originally how we connected, is that we have a couple of mutual friends and customers in common. Yeah, so tell me a little bit more about your marketing firm.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27

Yeah. So I left the corporate world first to be a dad first, to be totally truthful, had no plans, and then started building the consulting. And with any brand, I start with one question. In my case, the world does not need another brand consulting company. It doesn't. But what is it that we can bring that changes the whole thing? The same way, if you look at with ovation, ovation brings this unique way of actionable guest information. That is what is important. Okay. So in my case, the whole thing was the world has all brand agencies, everything else. We really create the path to win big. We are the value multiplier. We help you focus on one guest at a time. So there are two IPs we own. One is we are in the feeling business. It's all about the feeling. And the feeling means wow one more. In any restaurant, however cool you are, you can go through millions of customers, but we have to wow one more, one more, one more. And it's a very simple journey as you start going through.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25

And not only wowing one more, but making sure that you're wowing them again and again. And I think that that's one of the things that as I look through the reviews of your company, and by the way, zenmango.com is where you can go and learn more about what he does in this brand consultancy. But I mean, the reviews and what people are saying about you is just incredible that you're able to distill it down to what is the essence of that brand. And so as you're looking at that, what are some things that you use to guide these executives through to help them understand the essence of their brand?

SPEAKER_01: 3:00

You know, there are two simple realities. One is you cannot fake it till you make it. In any brand, you have to be a customer in your brand. I'll give you a goofy example from outside our industry. I was working and speaking at a retirement home. And part of my contract, I wanted to spend two nights there. Oh, in the retirement home? Yes. Because to me, I can talk about your retirement home and make a fool of myself and have no clue. And one of the big things I learned is imagine Zach, you and I both just on 7580, we have to go to this home. They have a rule that we have to take two five by seven pictures. Only two five by seven pictures for two frames. I can't do that. There'll be a mutiny in my family if I choose two five by seven. Okay. Like there were small things that I learned that really hit home. So next day when I went to speak, I asked their board how many of you have spent there. And here's a request to everyone who is listening is my request is you and your significant other, in the next three days, go and please spend a night in your guest bedroom. Once you sleep on the guest bed, my wife and myself, we did. We found our guest bed is the most romantic bed. If you're at the edge, you fall off. If you're in the middle, you go in. Only when we slept in the bed, we change the bed, send notes to people who have visited by saying, sorry for the bad experience, please come back for a free night. But that is like being, thinking, feeling like the guest is very important. And the second thing on the wow, one more is on every guest experience, if you look at that to be a date. Imagine Zach, you're single, you're going out on a date. Is the first impression and the last impression? The first impression, right away, you put the person in one of three buckets. What am I doing here? Or wow, or let's see. But here's the coolest thing common between a date and a restaurant experience. A guest with your experience, whether it is in restaurant or with your food, makes a decision just like on a date, whether to go out with you again. And that's the part where knowing it will happen with your food in front of you. That's the most important thing you can influence. That how do I influence that before every guest leaves? They must feel I did good. It's a very simple business.

SPEAKER_00: 5:22

It's simple just like a date. I love that. I actually do a keynote session called Dating Your Customers. And it's all about how do you get a second date? Because when you look at what happens on a first date, the first thing they're going to do is go check out your social media profile, right? And what do your guests do? They go and they check out your online reviews. They see what are people saying about you. When they walk in, when you first see that date for the first time in person and you're greeted with a hug, is it weird? Are they shaking your hand? Is it kind of uncomfortable? Or are they like, you know, is it natural? And so when they walk into your restaurant or where they place the order online, is it easy? Is it frictionless? And you can kind of go through everything that it takes to be a great first date. And that's what you need to have the guest feel.

SPEAKER_01: 6:10

And the thing that you said is very important is the second date. Okay. Imagine you're single, you meet this most amazing woman, and you go and put a plan in front by saying, Hey, I just see that you and I will be together to the point where in three years I booked that amazing resort for us to get married, and six years I booked that hospital. They are having a discount now. Why one get two, three? She's going to pin you. And she should. Okay. So all you can do is one date earns you the next date. That to me is such a humble thing to look at I will earn the next date. Even if you cheat on me because of the location, you will know. It's not Zach. I wish I went out with Zach. I wish I went to Zach's restaurant. Like that's the feeling you can create. Like the FOMO can be created, as you said, within the date, within the experience for the second date.

SPEAKER_00: 7:02

That is huge. And the problem is with restaurants, because it is such an expected promiscuity and appropriate promiscuity within the restaurant industry, right? We eat at lots of different restaurants. The thing is that you are only as good as your last experience. And so if you're on the 10th date, they're on the 10th visit and they have a terrible experience. Well, guess what? That unlocks another restaurant to take your spot. Oh, cookie. And you could only, which is why, again, that wowing one guest at a time needs to be a mindset of every single guest, not just first or second guest.

SPEAKER_01: 7:40

Oh, absolutely. Every day, every time. And then you add on top of it every restaurant, Friday, Saturday, for three to four hours, we go into the equivalent of a football's two-minute drill. Different coaches put a team in place for two-minute drill because that is where things fall down. That is where things break. Most restaurants do not have a plan for the two-minute drill. Most restaurants plan to drive the car in perfect weather or in no, those two-minute drills are brutal. And that's one of the things is if you are the head of operations, you have to be out every week, Thursday, Friday, Saturday night at week 10 to appreciate what your team does.

SPEAKER_00: 8:30

I think that is such a great concept because processes and procedures, if they're only meant for a perfect scenario, they're going to work 5% of the time. You need to figure out this is why one of the things about Disney, which by the way, I would definitely spend a night in Disney if I was doing something that I don't know, I'd never thought about spending a night in like a nursing home before to understand what the experience is. It's like so powerful, really putting yourself in their shoes. But one of the things that Disney does is that they give all of their cast members, here's the order of importance in terms of what you need to do and how you treat the guest. And the number one thing is guest safety. Meaning that if there is a line that is four hours long and someone who is needs a little bit of help is trying to get on the ride, they make everybody else wait because their experience comes second to guest safety. And they don't have to explain that in the thousand iterations of what that means, but they teach them the principles of how to treat the guests. And I feel like that's one of the things that you've done expertly. And those Thursday, Friday, Saturdays, those nights where things just get crazy. And we've all been there in the restaurant industry, and it's just like you get to halfway through the shift, you look down at your watch and you're like, that wasn't 14 hours, and things get really hard. And this is where I want to dive into your book and this concept of unquit. Talk to the listeners about unquit and what that means.

SPEAKER_01: 10:02

You know, what I felt was imagine both of us grew up together. We grew up in a world where quitting wasn't an option. We started crawling, we fell. That bump on my chin is from the fall. But we got up. There was no number of times. We stood, we started walking. Walking wasn't easy. But all these things happened because we all were Zack Arjun in a world of no quitting option. But then somehow we learned this concept of quitting. When I was 18, 19 years old, I tried to learn roller skates. I fell three times. I didn't, I don't know how to quit. My wife does not know how to ride a bike. She's scared to ride a bike now. But once you put quitting as an option, you play differently. Anytime you and I are on a project, we both look at each other, and our rule is if both of us are ready to quit. Let's say we are going on a hike. If both of us are ready to quit, we quit. But how would we play in a world where quitting is not an option? That's where we go from fearless to fear-free. Fear-free is you and I are together. We count on each other. All I need to do is when I am close to quitting, I'm human. I move from the me world, which is an M, to V, opposite. All I have to do is my superpower is I need help. That superpower, there's enough people around who will help us. Like that is the part of unquit that is there is in any place, how would you play? Knowing just like a quarterback, this is a free play. Nothing to lose, all out. And I think that is what is holding us back. And that's what I think unquit to me in life, in relationships, like even with my wife. Knowing that at the end of an argument, we would be together closer. It allows us to go deeper in, to learn each other, to be better together, because we are fear-free. We are not going to lose each other in the process. With my daughter, it's the same thing. Like I feel that's what unquick is.

SPEAKER_00: 12:02

That's so interesting. And I love that concept because quitting so often is an option that is way higher up on the spectrum than it should be. And especially like in this day and age when people are so much more willing to quit than before because maybe they don't want to go through a hard thing. And I get it, we want to make sure that people feel safe. But I feel that sometimes people will exchange the word safe for easy.

SPEAKER_01: 12:34

Totally. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying push yourself beyond. I'm just saying you choose. Don't be scared of failure and don't be scared of success. Okay. Many a time we feel that you and I have had three good quarters. Let's change our job and move to a different place. Because we may not be able to replicate this. No, that's not the reason to give up. We may give up because next three quarters we want to choose on our team and invest more on the team and may take a sales hit. It's a conscious choice. You're not pulling yourself out of the game. Like you're taking the quarterback out to give him a rest. You're not taking the quarterback out because you don't see a path to it.

SPEAKER_00: 13:19

That's a great point. And speaking of those moments of feeling like quitting, in your book Unquit Forever, you talk about these dark moments. And can you pick a one or two that have really shaped your outlook on life?

SPEAKER_01: 13:35

I think you know it's common for all of us. Every one of us who are here today who are listening, just go back. Think about there are days in your life you thought was coming to an end. You were in high school night before an exam, two more chapters you didn't prepare for. No. What? I don't know anything about that, Arjun. Absolutely. Next one will be you, most probably. This girl you were dating thought is the most amazing person. Just tells you, sorry. Doesn't even think your formal reason. Like you think the world's coming to an end. First job, we got a bad review. Okay. Those nights were tough. World is coming to an end. But think today, Zach is sitting here, Ardun's here, because the world never comes to an end. We found a way. That's the part where we have to give ourselves credit is we found a way. And anytime there's a situation I really look at myself and I tell myself I have a discipline that I only go back to the past for two reasons to find celebrations and find learning. Let's say if this is a restaurant, that closet only has tea and coffee. I only go for tea and coffee. I don't go for anything else. And it really helps us. Like, let's say I give you a very clear example. We work in a restaurant. I made a few big mistakes, and you are the owner. At that instance, you don't have to file me. At that instance, let's move forward. You can fire me tomorrow. At that instance, you don't have to waste time on who did it. I don't have to waste time justifying. Consequences should happen later. But if we get into that moment of being in the present, just get learning and celebrations from the past to take the step forward. That's all it takes. And that discipline I have found is very important in the business world, in the restaurant industry, everywhere. Because we bash ourselves, we bash others, we try to change the past. Like Zach, why could you not yesterday do this? I don't know, was did Zach intentionally ever screw up? No. If I have to help Zach evolve, or you have to help me evolve, it's a different conversation outside the crisis. Another day. Right now, Zach, can you be a superhero to get us out of it? Yes, I can. What's the one step? Like that, I think is the mindset. To me, it's a huge mindset, and that's the part where the unquit. And all these are connected because it's all about taking one step.

SPEAKER_00: 16:00

I love that celebration or learning and not regret and depression. What do you do about the future, right? Because a lot of times people will quit, not because things have been hard, but because they're so scared of what things of how hard things will be in the future. They're imagining all these scary things that are going to happen, and it paralyzes people into undecision or into quitting. How do you look towards the future?

SPEAKER_01: 16:26

Like, for example, one of the big challenges in the restaurant industry is retention. Some team members will have to quit because they're moving in life. After graduation, they're moving, changing jobs. I understand those are good things for the person or sometimes good for us. But rest of the time, good team members quit because we have quit on them. Zach quits, like Zach will not leave this job. Zach felt loved at two points of time. Then he comes in and then he leaves the work. Okay. When he leaves the job, I just call you out by saying, Zach, buddy, had a great day. Have a great evening. Be safe. You need anything, call me. And if I know your family member's name, your wife, kids, I say, hey, you know, say hi to them. Will Zach leave me? No, he won't. It doesn't matter how much you get paid. You get happy about the pay raise, everything, just for maybe 18 days or 22 days. I've done the math sometimes. But what happens is every day when you leave, you know whether I've quit on you, whether you're a nameless person, another person, that means I've quit on you. That means you're disposable. That means you can leave. But if you feel they love me here, they need me here. It goes back to the feeling business. Retention. That's the core of retention is how every team member every day feels connected to one person in the organization who has not quit. It's the we world, not me world.

SPEAKER_00: 17:48

Wow. I mean, that's so powerful. And helping them to feel that love and that connection. And what would you say to, I think this is great for leaders thinking about how do we help our team feel that love and stay connected? What would you say to the leaders that are maybe they're like, you know, I think about the restaurant industry is a very competitive industry. Like I think about some of my customers that are chicken customers and they're just so afraid of what's going to happen because there's so much competition for chicken. Prices are going up, consumer demand is going down. What would you say to those people who are just kind of like scared of what the future holds for their restaurant?

SPEAKER_01: 18:30

So I would say two things to them. One is I'll steal from this smart guy I met, I forgot his name, Zach. He just talked to me about prioritizing. Okay. What is the number one thing that you do is the most important thing. Number one thing, what you showed me on that example means priority means you can choose. Priority means everything else moves. Priority to me means there are four women in my life: my daughter, my wife, my mother, and my mother-in-law. If they call right now, I'll take the call. Which means you become number two, Zach. I'm sorry. But that's priority. Priority is predefined. That to me is the goal that you share. And the second thing as you start going through is brand must understand. I know it's a competitive world, but you cannot control what your competition does. The moment you fall into the trap of reaction, you're toast, you're dead. You have to see the world, but you act. If you and I play a game, if I can get you to a reaction mode, I win Zach every time. And brands react. Competition does this, let's put an extra coupon. Competition does this, let's do this. No. What competition does has change the play. The game plan. In that new game plan, what is the right, best action for us? Pause. Give yourself time. We sometimes think that the corporate world rewards us for the person who acts first. No. I really want the person who acts because the moment you act first, you do emotional, impulsive response. You throw in a play that was there. Maybe you need to create a new play. Maybe you need to bring somebody else to help you. But that difference between action and reaction in a competitive world really changes brands. I've seen brands who were leaders start reacting. Boom. If you act like a follower, you become a follower.

SPEAKER_00: 20:22

Wow. I mean, I mean, I just looked at the clock and I'm like, oh my gosh, this flew by. I have uh so thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you. This has been mind expanding. It's been so wonderful. So I hate to wrap this up, but you know a lot of people in this industry and a lot of people from your time speaking and writing. Who is someone that you feel like deserves an ovation? Who's someone that we should be following?

SPEAKER_01: 20:48

There are two individuals. One is a rock star, little bit of yesterday, former president CEO of Panera, Blaine Hurst, who was also president. Blaine is such a sharp guy. Love Blaine. And the coolest thing about Blaine is a lot of people are talk more, walk less. Blaine is 99% walk. And the second is a leader of today who I really think will emerge to even a superleader is K Dover. And, you know, with K, the coolest thing I learned is with smartness, with success, there's some attitude that comes in, people. I think Klay has not read that chapter of the leadership. Okay. So he has missed out that he has to add a little attitude to his life. He does not. He's the same Klay I know from 20 years back, 15 years back, same amazing human being, leading, taking things to bigger levels. So really applaud both these guys to be amazing friends and mentors in my life.

SPEAKER_00: 21:46

I couldn't agree more. I mean, those are two just incredible people, people I look up to a lot, and people that I've learned so much from. And talking about going through challenges, Blaine's life has been incredible to seeing what he's been overcoming and all the things he's had to relearn. And so I know there's a lot of camaraderie and trials that you and Blaine have had. And so I uh love that shout-out for him. Now, Ardun, where can we go to learn more about you or your company?

SPEAKER_01: 22:14

So, of course, Ardunsen.com, that's where you can find all the information. And also, if you get a chance on Amazon Prime, check out the movie I Want to Talk. And today is a very special day because yesterday, in the equivalent of Indian Oscar, the movie won Best Movie, Best Actor, and Best Script. So we have been celebrating, and this has been an amazing day for this movie to win three of the top awards.

SPEAKER_00: 22:40

Oh my gosh, that's incredible. Well, congratulations, Arjun. I mean, amazing, and I can't wait to watch the movie because I've had such a good time going through your book again, unquit forever. And so for showing us that life is worth unquitting, today's ovation goes to you. Thank you so much for joining us on Given Ovation. Thank you. Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two question SMS based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.