Welcome And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Ot, and each week I get to chat with an industry expert to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what's actually happening in your restaurants and how to improve without just a long survey. Learn more at ovationup.com. And today we have someone who is not just a partner of ours, but someone who's we've worked with them for a few years now across two different brands. He was COO of PDQ. You could check out his previous podcast on that now. For almost a year and a half, he's been the CEO of Tiki Taco, which is a super cool brand with super cool oh, look at that swag. And I just took a sip from my Tiki Taco koozie. Anyway, and he's just an awesome guy, Eric Nod. Welcome to the podcast again.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Thanks for having me. I'm surprised you actually asked me to come back.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

I mean, it took a hundred episodes to convince you, but we finally got you back. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. So, Eric, I want to talk about this because you've had such an interesting journey. And like the last three brands you've worked with, out back. And we're grateful to be able to work with them and have them as a partner as well. And PDQ, grateful to have them. And now Tiki Taco, you've gone from a just giant brand to a medium-sized brand

Lessons From Outback To PDQ

SPEAKER_00 1:32

to a small brand. Talk to me about that journey. What are some common threads that you've seen across those brands and what are some differences?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah. So I mean, the Outback days is kind of where I cut my teeth in the restaurant business. So I worked my way through that system over 12 years. And a lot of really good things happen at Outback. Community, they're huge on community, huge on guest focus, huge on quality food. And what I say is they were the bohemoth that had structure, they had organization, they had systems. And so I think those five things is what I pulled from Outback going into PDQ. And I was at PDQ at store one. So we grew that from one to 70 in about eight years or so. And those same principles we brought with us. Now, some big corporation, uh corporate office didn't put those together. We had to do that in the early days with training outlines and how we're going to take care of the guest experience, how we're going to maintain the quality food, how we're going to be really deep rooted in the communities that we serve. And so it was a basic principle at PDQ. And when I joined Tiki, we had three restaurants already open. And they had a lot of the same DNA already built, just didn't have it formalized. So we started with standard operating procedures, putting together recipe management deal, and then checklists here and there. And then we brought on a bunch of technology. Ovation was my first call, actually, when I came over to Tiki. Because I think it's the most important thing outside of your team members to understand what your guest is saying, whether that be good, bad, ugly, you may not want to hear it sometimes. You may not agree with it sometimes, but it's still from their perspective is how they interact with your brand.

Building Systems At Tiki Taco

SPEAKER_01 3:20

So a year and a half later, we brought on a lot of technology, mostly so we can automate, get answers quickly, and then react even faster. But we've built the same type of structure. Quality food is very important to us. The guest experience is very important to us. We have systems and a foundation. And each restaurant, I like to say to the operators, they need to be the mayor of that restaurant. So draw a big circle around five miles around the store, and they should own every business, every church, every little league, school. Everybody should know their name. Of course, they're going to associate it with Tiki Taco, but I want them to come to the restaurant more to see Zach or to see Eric rather than I mean, of course, the food has to be great too, but that personalized level.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

So I love that because that connection is so critical. And I and I tell restaurateurs all the time when you and I speak at a lot of conferences together. But one of the things I always talk about is it's not about perfection. It's about connection. It's about making sure that they know that they've got someone that they can turn to when something goes wrong. And that they can have that trust that it will be made right. And they can have that trust that it's going to be a consistent experience. But if not, someone's going to come in and save the day. And if it's a consistent problem, they're going to fix the issue, right? Because, like you said, you don't always agree with them. And sometimes you have those guests that you just need to hear and you just need to help them feel heard. And then you have those guests that you're like, you know what? I've been hearing this a few times. And so we need to change something operationally.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah. I mean, I think the difference between what we're trying to create is an emotional connection with the guests that they feel good about trading service for the money out of their pocket or their credit card or however they pay. But at the end of the day, I think you're spot on. I think that's a good idea. Oh, actually, I'm ovation. Spot on uh is a great, also great company. I'm kidding. I think that what you were trying to say you had it right, and people want to know that they're acknowledged. They want to know that they've been heard, and that could be a good, bad, or ugly situation. Most of the time you hope that it's a good situation, but we are humans and we try and set up structure to follow this, this, and this to make sure that the ground beef gets tasted or the pastor gets tasted or carnitas or whatever the case may be. But sometimes the reality of being imperfect is that you miss something or you make a mistake, and then if you catch a piece of the recipe incorrect from a piece of guest feedback they hit you with, you can go correct that issue on site. And we rely on, with ovation, we rely on our GMs to handle all of the comment, two-way comment from the survey. And we do that again intentionally because we want that guest to know who Zach is, that there's a voice behind it. And listen, I mean, the reality is like the AI feature is awesome, but my GMs have fun with it. They let the AI create it and then they'll put stuff in there. Like I just saw one yesterday. It was so funny. It was a good experience, and he used the AI to write it, but at the end, he put something personalized and said, by the way, this is not a bot. Like making it fun, like having fun with it. But essentially it's very easy for them, especially you know, especially it's text message based

Feedback As A Growth Engine

SPEAKER_01 6:40

through the app. They enjoy it, and I enjoy being able to see how the restaurants are performing, what the guests are saying, and try and use that, put that into my arsenal, would you say, of making decisions on whatever it might be, whether it's a food item, could be a beverage, an experience, whatever the case may be.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

And are there any changes that you've made at at Tiki Taco because of the feedback that you received through ovation?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah, there's plenty. The big ones, though, we had in my, I guess my first couple months, we had a bunch of comments about our grilled fish taco. And they weren't nice. They weren't nasty, but it was just like, oh, we we've had the carnitas, we've had the chicken, we've had the chicken tingo, we've had the pastor. They're so awesome, but this grilled fish is just like it's not great, you know. So we actually ended up removing the grilled fish from the menu completely. Oh, wow. Because we didn't want to sell a substandard product. Now we're we're back on the grind of RDing and getting that right because I think having that for the guest, especially those trying to be healthy, is a good avenue. But you know, from us, if it's not right, we don't we don't want to serve it.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Well, and then by the way, as you're testing that out, you should use the long form server that you can get specific feedback about that menu item. Because I think it's critical that as you're doing LTOs, as you're doing like testing new menu items, you're not always going to get feedback about that specific thing. Because if a guest has feedback, they're gonna tell you what it is and it's pretty open-ended. But then you could double-click into that to understand all right, what do you think about this? Do you like it? Do you not? Should we keep it on the menu? And so you can get a good flavor for what the guests are thinking about it too.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, it's a great idea. I mean, we we probably are about a month away. We've got a lot of roads happening at the moment. We we're spread it, but we do have it on probably at the end of Q4.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

But yeah, we'll definitely look into it. Yeah, let's keep in touch on that. I'd love to see that journey. Because I think that's that and then that's one of the things that I've always respected about you, Eric, because you're not someone who, all right, let's take it off the menu. That failed. But it's like, no, let's let's take it off the menu and circle back to that and let's try that in a different way. And because you have this operational mindset where you're like, we want this on the menu, let's figure out a way to make it work, but you also know how to prioritize and to say, this is something we have to punt on for the next couple quarters because we got bigger fish to fry, so to speak, or to grill.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah. Well, I think it's important, especially as like we're an emerging brand, right? So we're a very small team and prioritizing what everyone's workflow looks like is important so we can do it the right way. But the other thing too is someone taught me, I don't remember, I probably should, but a long time ago about product mix and what what sells on your menu and what the guest be, you know, how the guest behavior works. And basically, if something's selling less than three or four percent on your menu, it either sucks or people don't want it. So either fix it and sell more or just take it off. So I try to state we have a quarterly Wheeze Bicky and it's very easy, not as a name drop, but it's very easy to look at product mix and what's selling, what's not. So if something starts to sell more or starts to sell less, so we do that every quarter, and we go down the entire menu basically, okay. Does something need to be looked at? Do we need to work on something? What's the guest transitioning from this to that? And it's more, you know, I think from a pride aspect, we all probably want to do things our way or our flavors or or what we think. But at the end of the day, it's like, well, I'm not serving, well, I do eat in the restaurants pretty much every day, but I'm not paying, right? Every single day. So let's listen to the people that are paying to

Humanizing Two-Way Text Responses

SPEAKER_01 10:15

eat at your restaurants and see what they want and then try and meet them in between somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

And as you're kind of looking at this guest journey, what do you think has changed over the last few years? Is is there anything that has significantly changed, or do you feel like the guest is still the guest and stays the guest?

SPEAKER_01 10:33

No, this is something I've been thinking about for probably at least a year or two. I think that before COVID, the value prop perception, however you want to phrase it, was that everyone felt good about exchanging whatever dollar amount, eight, nine, ten, twelve, thirteen dollars, for a high quality meal that was somewhat made at that location. COVID hits, everybody felt the pressure. As a restaurant business, we start making what I would say bad decisions, bringing in pre-made or frozen items or whatever the case may be. And we get out of COVID, we get labor shortages, everybody keeps understanding that they're gonna have to pay more for this food, even though it might not be the best for them. And now that's over. We're five years past, and what people now are saying is everyone's had inflation and raised their menu price so much that it's all basically the same. QSR, fast casual. I'm gonna go to five guys and spend $30 for lunch for two of us. I'm gonna go to McDonald's, and you're probably gonna still spend $20 to $25. So there's not much of a difference in price, but my expectation now is that if I'm gonna go out, I want to feel good about what I'm eating. I want to know that majority of that is real food that's made in the restaurants. And they want to feel good about exchanging that price point with somebody for something that's not frozen or pre-packaged or pre-made somewhere else. And I think it's gonna continue to shift because the expectation now is that I have to come out of my pocket probably with no less than $10 to $12 for a meal, whether that be lunch or dinner. Now, not talking casual dining and fine dining.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

That's just although I will say, like, I just not to name drop on the other side, but like I went to Chili's recently and I spent less money there. Well, in terms of like McDonald's five guys chilies, they really were all within like a seven dollar spread of what it costs to eat for two people to eat, even with a tip at Chili's. And so, like, I was really surprised that I was able to do that because I've again I've always thought of like that casual dining as just okay, that's where we go for dinner when we want to spend more money. Not the case anymore, which means there's a lot more competition for restaurateurs.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

The water is getting very muddy on how to separate from QSR, fast casual, even casual dining. And it's because everyone's starting to shift. The casual dining consumers are getting higher price point, people want to shift down, people are now paying more

Changing The Menu With Data

SPEAKER_01 13:10

on the QSR side, so they want better experiences. So it's getting very muddy between I would say the lower end of casual dining and the higher end of QSR. It's very muddy.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Which means the name of the game is once you kind of I love that concept, that philosophy of you need to be the mayor of your five miles. And once people know about you, the name of the game is retention. Because if you are only bringing back 30% of your customers, you cannot win in this environment. It's too hard. The margins are too thin, it's too expensive to get someone to switch and to try you over the other restaurant that's somewhat similar to you down the street, but they haven't put in the work to do the hand-to-hand combat to win you as an individual. And maybe last things I know we're running out of time here, but that concept of the individual, we were just talking about that before we started about how somebody walked into the store, you took the time to talk to them, and that resulted in some incredible catering orders for you, and how it's critical that you treat everyone as if they had that kind of a number above their head.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah, it's I mean, the most important part is you never know, and I continue to get humbled on a daily basis. I was talking to a guy about three weeks ago, and between you and I, it looked like he didn't have a home to live in. I won't tell anyone. Yeah, I I start talking to a guy, and he owns like half of the city's property here in Kansas City. So talk about like an humbling experience. And thank God I just see people as people. I mean, so I was chatting this guy up, and 30 minutes later he comes inside the restaurant, has lunch, and we get to know each other and come to find out. Like I said, he owns half of the part of the it's called the crossroads here in Kansas City.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

And that's the thing is like you you never know, it never hurts to be kind, and sometimes it'll be life-changing and incredibly helpful. I met someone, I was at a trade show walking around, and I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna do one more loop at this after party. It was like 11:30, and I was like, going to bed, and I'm like, see these two guys talking, walk up to them, start talking to them, and uh turns out they have a pretty big restaurant brand. They signed up and they've actually invested more than two million dollars into ovation, right? So it's just one of those things where it was like really amazing that one of our great customers turned into a great investor, and those are the types of things like you never know. And so be kind. Yeah, that's the moral of the story, right? Is just be kind. Anyway, Eric, I know we're out of time here. Who's someone that deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry?

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Okay, this is gonna sound crazy because of my past life, but I recently had an experience that I have to tell you about. I promise I'll be fast, and it's Chick-fil-A. Oh, uh-huh. I went and met the franchisee of the Chick-fil-A near the new restaurant that we're opening just to hey, welcome to the neighborhood. Let's chat it up. We had about a 30-minute conversation over coffee. Fast forward six months later, I get a handwritten card in the mail congratulating me on my one-year anniversary in Kansas City. He took the time from that conversation over coffee to remember when I started with Tiki, and he hand wrote a letter, or not letter, but like a note card about how successful we're gonna be. So nice to meet you. Hope to see you soon. Congratulations on one year. Wow. Dude, that is so cool.

Product Mix And Quarterly Reviews

SPEAKER_01 16:40

I mean, just unbelievable. And it just challenges me, really. That's all that did was like, this guy's incredible, but it challenges me to continue to think like that. Think like that about every interaction.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

And you know what? That was probably his pleasure to do it. So good one. Good one. Well, Eric, before we get to the final part of the podcast, how do people find and follow you in Tiki Taco?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

So tikitaco.com, tiki tacos our hashtag pretty much everywhere except TikToks, tiki taco kc. And then if you want mine, it's Eric Knott and LinkedIn. You can find me on Pretty Active. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

All right, Eric. Well, Eric, for bringing us a second spoonful of wisdom from your ocean of experience. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you so much for joining us on GivenOvation. Thanks, Doc. Appreciate it. Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two question estimates-based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.