SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Goates, and each week I get to chat with an industry expert to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five-star guest experience. As always, this podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what is actually happening in your restaurants and how to improve without just a long survey. Learn more at ovationup.com. And today we have someone who is a repeat podcast guest because he is just doing so many cool things with his brand, Jason Sobasinski. He is the president and co-founder at Haven Hot Chicken. They are growing, there's such a great brand, amazing product, 10 locations growing, food truck. Maybe we'll talk a little bit about that. But there's a lot going on, and I wanted to have Jason on because the amount of love that this brand gets from their guests and online is bananas. And so we wanted to have them on to talk about the guest experience, talk about that power. So, Jason, thanks for coming back onto the podcast. How are you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:10

I'm doing great. Thank you for having me. I had a blast last time we spoke. I have a blast every time I talk to you at various conferences. Amen. I'm a true believer in ovation and what it does.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22

So always happy to talk. Well, appreciate it. And I've loved uh getting that card. I still have it in the plastic wrapper. I keep it in my desk drawer. I've got the Haven Hot Chicken Black card. For those of you who don't have that card, sorry. But it's just awesome that you could even be the kind of brand that could have something like that. So let's dive into the guest experience, Jason. Why is it that people love Haven Hot Chicken so much and beyond the chicken? Because obviously, like, yeah, you gotta have good food, good service, table stakes. Good food, good service does not a brand make. So why is it that people love you guys so much?

SPEAKER_02: 2:06

We like to stand on two big facets in the business. And you said one of them, it's great food. We have to have great food, you have to have great product, it's got to set you apart. I think that most people in the industry right now recognize that, and quality is paramount. But number two, it's hospitality. And for us, the way we define hospitality is exceeding expectations. You've got a million choices. You can go just about anywhere, especially where we are in the Northeast. There's so many restaurants and there's so many choices. And when it comes to chicken, there's more choices with chicken every day. Like it feels like there's new chicken all the time. When we exceed expectations with hospitality, is when we find we really win. And when we get that guest that's blown away by that little extra thing we do, it doesn't have to be a grand gesture. That's when we really enjoy our jobs, our team really enjoys their jobs, and the guests really get something extra. I think that's what's really propelled us, that and our product, to be a successful brand right now.

SPEAKER_01: 3:15

You exceed expectations on the first visit, but I think one of the things that also sets you apart is that you consistently meet that expectation with the guest on subsequent visits, right? Because it's one thing to be like, hey, we're gonna be good chicken, but you can't like blow your guest away every single time, other than if they are shocked at how consistent it is, right?

SPEAKER_02: 3:37

And we're constantly working on that, and and by all means, we are not perfect. And in not being perfect, we get a lot of oppos, not a lot of opportunities. I just say we get opportunities to correct our mistakes when our guests give us that feedback through Yelp, Google, and obviously through ovation. That's been great because I want to hear when guests don't get blown away. That means every time, right? I want to be consistent, but I do think that consistency it can be not great because if you just get a consistent product and it's okay, then you're not gonna come back. I want to consistently exceed expectations. How's that? Like I want you to get a little something and it could just be a smile, right? Or it could just be somebody at the counter saying, How's your day today? It could be something really, really small, but I do want to try to exceed our guests' expectations every time they come in, order from us, get Uber DoorDash, go through our native channels, like something we can do that's like they've taken a little extra care. Maybe it's in the way the food was packed, maybe it's a little bit of extra napkins. Every opportunity that we've got, we have to take because it's pretty competitive out there.

SPEAKER_01: 5:04

I love that because one thing that I always say at ovation is like the little things matter because they are the little things. I could fake the big things, but those little things, like the extra napkins, it's like maybe not everyone is gonna notice that, but the people who do are really gonna care. I remember one person that I worked with, he had a sign that was behind him. It was a little like, you know, a little tentfold, and it said, Yes, we clean here too. And I was like, What is that from? And he said, I was in a hotel and I dropped something on the floor and so under the bed, and so I lifted up the bed to go find the thing, and there was a little piece of paper there that said, Yes, we clean under here too. I love that. So he asked the hotel if he could have that, and that little thing made him just trust that hotel so much more, and trust is the currency of today, right? That's where people make their decisions.

SPEAKER_02: 6:04

Yeah, we've been trying. I think it's important that you're constantly talking about this, talking about hospitality, talking about exceeding expectations, talking about your guests experience. We recently launched what we're calling fun cards, but they're actually a way for our we call them GE guest experience, it's the cashier for us, for our guest experience to reverse tip our guests. So basically, they closed to a plethora of different personalities, right? And we ask for gratuity every order. We say, Oh, would you like to you know give some gratuity? We wanted to put the gratuity or the tip or whatever it is into the hands of the G, the guest experience person. So if you were to come in and you were kind of in a bad mood and you ordered abruptly, and maybe the G would say, Are you having a good day? Like, can I make your day better? Or maybe they wouldn't. That's totally up to them. But if you came in and you started a dialogue and you were having a great day, and you're like, you know what? This is a great, I'm having a great interaction. This is a great experience for me as a worker, as the guest experience person here at the register. I'm gonna give you one of these cards, and all it is is a dollar off your next visit. That's all it is, and all you need to say is, I really enjoy this interaction. I'm tipping you. Next time you come in, use this. Next time you order online, use this. It's a buck off. It's me tipping you. We just wanted to see what it would do. So much fun. The teammates love it, they feel like they have some power in their hands, and the guests that receive these cards, because they know it's not like a promotion, this is up to the discretion of the team member who's working. They make that decision just like the guests decides whether they want to leave gratuity. The whole interaction flipped like that was so cool to watch. And so now this is something we're doing. And you may get one, you may not. Uh it's not up to me. It's up to the person behind the counter and the experience that they feel that they'd had. And I thought that was just different and fun. And it has like surprised some of our guests, which is pretty fun.

SPEAKER_01: 8:21

I love that. I love that idea because it's getting to the heart of this whole thing you're talking about is it exceeding the expectations, is like it's a dollar, it's a little thing. And we actually do something similar at ovation, except everyone at ovation gets a bonus that they have to give somebody else that ovation every month. And then what we do is every month during the all hands meeting, they fill out I'm giving my ovation to this person because they exhibited these ovation values when this thing happened. And so then every month I read through every single person's ovation. We we call it an ovation, who's giving whom their ovation and for what? And so it keeps the values first and foremost in people's minds. They're always looking for ways to catch people living by the values of ovation, and it's getting them to celebrate each other. And I love that you're getting your people to celebrate the customers because the guest is the reason that we're all here, and so to celebrate them and to look for ways to celebrate them, I think is just such a beautiful way to show that they matter to you, and that's really cool. I love that idea.

SPEAKER_02: 9:32

They were just like, What? Why? Just because I I was nice to you, and you're like, Yeah, why not? You know, a little something. So we're trying to come up with more ideas. I love that idea for internally, though, and I may steal it.

SPEAKER_01: 9:46

Oh, no, please do. I think it's a systematic way to express gratitude. My freshman year in my hall, I had a stack of cards, and they were called good guy, good deed, good card cards. And what it was is like whenever you caught someone, a guy on our floor that was doing something cool, you would grab a card as you came up the stairwell, you wrote on it, hey, thanks, Jason. I saw you do this, and that was really nice. And then we had tape there. You just go and tape it to that person's dorm door. And it just created such a camaraderie amongst the guys on our floor. And like, I'm still friends with my freshman year friends, not just because of the cards, but because like we were all looking out to like do something good for each other and to like find each other doing good. And I think that that's such a great way to celebrate each other.

SPEAKER_02: 10:35

It is, it's a great way to keep this stuff top of mind too, and that's the key because we're so busy, we're all running around crazy, and now you're like, you know what? I'm thinking about it because we have a system, we have something that we can actually do, and it keeps it top of mind. I think that's the key.

SPEAKER_01: 10:53

I was gonna ask about a tactic. I I think that tactic that you gave of like these reverse tipping, what a cool idea. Any other tactics that you want to share? I love the essence of that. Oh, wait, by the way, before I get there, can I ask you a question? How did you get to that idea? Like, where did that idea come from? Because I'm wondering, is there any like systems that you guys have in place that allowed for that idea to come up? Like, where did it come from? How did you implement it? Because that it is a unique idea.

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

So we pool all of our gratuities and then dole them out amongst the team, depending on how much that they've working hour-wise. And we're always trying to figure out ways that the team can bolster their gratuity because it's a big part of what their end pay is. You can make anywhere from three to five dollars more per hour extra just by the gratuities that are coming in. And I want to make sure that the team understands that that's huge, like that's a big part of your pay, and I want you to be able to earn more and have the ability to earn more. And by the way, the way you pack, the way you handle all these things, we create these regulars, and then what we've seen is the more times you've come, the higher your tip averages. Because at the very beginning, it's like, well, I don't know what I'm getting. The QSR world is very, and I don't know if we're QSR or what, but but you know, when you come in, you order food, you haven't received it, and you're asked to give a tip right then and there, it's like, well, for what? I'm paying you now. So what we've seen is as they build rapport and as they get to know the players in the stores and they get to trust them. You said trust, the gratuity average kind of ticks up, depending on that guest. So we're always talking about, well, how do we give them more opportunity to impress the guest and get more gratuity? Because that's a great thing. You get really there's a little sense of pride when your store has more gratuity on average than somebody else's, or your team has more gratuity on average than than the others, because I love competition. And so this was just a way that we came up with Eken actually came up with this idea. He's like, what if we reverse tip? And I was like, Well, I we we handed out dollars from the the register kind of thing, and then we we kind of fleshed it out like let's make these cards and let's make it completely up to the people that are at the register. This is not us, this is them. They decide which guests get a tip and which don't. And it just became this kind of fun thing, but it also keeps everything again top of mind. Now we're looking out for great interactions because they want to give these cards out because it feels good to give somebody something, and that at the end of the day, like one of our values is joy. We want to spread joy. Create joy, we want to be joyful in our job. Okay, well, this is a great way to do that.

SPEAKER_01: 13:50

And that joy concept, I think, is just so powerful. I know we're running low on time. I and I wanted to dive into a couple of things here, but any other tactics? I know I we uh got sidetracked there right before I was asked to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 14:02

Well, no, it's it's all good. We practice surprise and delights quite often, and basically we pick a store every single week, and that store gets visited by one of our team members, Amanda. She does catering, the truck, and special events. So Amanda will go to she'll be like, I think next week she's doing Oxford, and she'll set up about three or four different local businesses that she'll reach out to and say, Hey, on Thursday, I'm bringing you lunch. How many people do you have? And they're like, uh eight people. Great. I'm bringing you lunch. Get ready. I'll be dropping it off at 12:30. And she just goes around, drops them off. She gives them materials, but it's a great way to bolster catering. It gets people to come in, it gets people that have seen us but not know who we are. A lot of times, what I'm finding because we are hot chicken, we will drop off food. People will call, literally, they'll call Amanda and say, I thought you only had spicy chicken. And you dropped this amazing chicken. It wasn't spicy at all. And we're like, Yeah, we dropped off country. Oh my god, I never would have ordered. So, like, clearly, our messaging is not very good, and we need to work on that. But this is a great opportunity for us to just get the product out there, and that's for us the best marketing is when you can bite into an audibly loud, crispy, crunchy, juicy, spicy, delicious piece of chicken, and then you're like, Okay, now I understand what it is that you guys are doing. It's not what I pictured in my mind, which, and I'm not dogging any other chicken because clearly ours is the best, but when people try it, they're like, okay, this is something different because there's a lot of competitors out there. Chicken is everywhere, everyone's making chicken. So it's important for us to just get out there and be like, here, taste this, bite into it. That's been our best tactic, honestly.

SPEAKER_01: 16:00

I love that. And how has ovation been helpful for you guys in like both from a strategy standpoint in terms of the team, and then as well as like a tactical standpoint, like anything that you've actually been able to improve as a result of it?

SPEAKER_02: 16:16

Oh, daily. We don't have failures, we have opportunities, right? So daily we're looking at our ovation scores. Each individual store that we have, we're digging into, and each GM and AGM goes into ovation. They look at okay, where are the opportunities? I love that you can filter what the guest responses are. So, what do we need to work on most? Is it accuracy? Are we missing sauces? Is it temperature? Like all these things break out for us. And I know that we only get about five to seven percent of our guests actually give us ovations, so it is a very small amount, but I'll take any information and feedback I possibly can, and then we're just using it literally on a daily basis to look at okay, where can we improve? But I think the best part is when you can dialogue back with a guest and say, ah, we messed up. How can we make this up to you? First, first and foremost, I'm gonna apologize. Let's recognize that we made a mistake, it's an opportunity. Second, let's fix the mistake. If it's in time, we'll fix it for you. We'll jump on this, we'll make new. And if it isn't in time, let's invite you back so you can have the experience that you were supposed to have, and let's exceed your expectations by giving you loyalty points. Maybe it's two visits you get to come to really make sure that that consistency that we were talking about is there, right? So we're doing this on a daily basis. Our ovation scores are also tied to our store performance bonuses. So you've got to hit a certain ovation score, even to qualify to get a bonus. If you're out there and you're crushing it on food cost and crushing it on labor, but your ovation scores like a 4.1, you're not really doing what we're set out to do, right? You're not really following the values of the business, you're not really standing on hospitality and food quality. That's clear. So we use that ovation score on a daily basis to score our teams and to let them know where they have opportunities to improve and they want to. And that's been a big part for us. I mean, it's at the end of every quarter, it is tied to our store performance bonuses. It hits home in a big way. I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:47

It's so powerful to see people that truly care about the guest experience and not in like a, hey, let's measure it and then like ignore it, but let's really dive into it and have it be not just tied to like a number that you want to hit, but tied to the success of that individual GM in terms of financially, because guest experience is a leading indicator of store success. And if you're not tying those two things together, if you're waiting on just like the PL to tell the story, you're three to five months late on fixing and on making sure that things are going great. So anyway, Jason, it is always a pleasure to chat with you. And I'm so grateful for the partnership. I'm so grateful for all the things that we get to learn together. And well, we sure do appreciate you and for being such a rock star and for being cool while being hot. Today's ovation goes to you, Jason. Thank you for joining us on Given Ovation. Thank you, Zach. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00: 19:49

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two question SMS based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.