Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast. I'm your host, Zach Oates, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what is actually happening in your restaurants and how to improve without just a long survey. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And I am so excited. Today we have a legend of the industry. He's on the board of Blaze. He's a CEO, past CEO of Fuzzy's. He was CEO of Global Franchise Group. He was the CEO of NafNaf, president of North America for Focus Brands, president of Moe's Southwest Grill. I mean, I literally needed a podcast just to put his bio in here, but instead we're just going to do the cliff notes and welcome Paul D'Amico on the podcast. How are you, man? Good to see you, Zach. I do have to ask, with a last name like D'Amico, what are the worst pronunciations that you've heard?

Speaker 2: 1:03

Damco Just.

Speaker 1: 1:07

Damco, just making up letters, just making up stuff. Huh, now, paul, when you look at a brand, you obviously have had such an amazing career in the hospitality space when you're talking with a restaurant owner who is growing and scaling, what is one of the things that you normally point them to to say like, hey, this is something that you need to watch out for?

Speaker 2: 1:33

I talk to a lot of up-and-comer restaurant owners, and I spend a lot of time with existing multi-unit restaurant operators and I always tell them listen, there are so many pieces to the restaurant puzzle. The most important thing, though, is what happens inside your box, right, and that's the four walls of your restaurant, because today, in many cases, what happens inside that four walls is now ranging from 50 to 70%, depending on catering, online ordering, third-party delivery and all of the other aspects of growing your sales. But when someone makes the effort to come into your box, they made a conscious decision to get in the car, maybe with family, maybe with friends. Get their part, get out and come in the box. The experience has to be 100%, or they're not going to come back, and those are the people that, ultimately, will become your third-party users and use your product outside the four walls. But you got to take care of what's happening inside the four walls. That's my biggest piece of advice.

Speaker 1: 2:31

I love that because usually if someone's going to order delivery from you, they're going to come in as well. There's going to be some aspect of trying it out, seeing what it is, because there's that trust aspect. And this is the whole thing that people didn't love about ghost kitchens is like I don't know where this is coming from, but when I go into a restaurant and I see that it's clean, I am a lot more likely to order from there before if I know the staff cares and stuff like that. So I think that's a great piece of advice because even though things are changing and there's so much out there that's different, the fundamentals are still there, right? Paul?

Speaker 2: 3:07

They have to be. If you consider yourself a restaurant, you have to have great food, you have to have great service and you have to have an environment that people want to come to. They just do. If not, you'll be a short-term restaurant operator. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Or you're going to be capped at how many locations you could scale to right. Sure, so, as you're thinking about the guest experience in your career, how have you seen the guest experience evolve and what stayed the same, and compare that to like what do you think the most important aspect of guest experience today is?

Speaker 2: 3:37

Let me relay what I just said. If you're a restaurant, the biggest challenge we all face today is traffic. Can we get more people to come in and use our restaurants? Right, and so you've got to have great about is the cleanliness piece, and I see it all the time. No matter where I'm going, I see that people are neglecting the cleanliness, the housekeeping, the organization, and I think that that is a major driver of whether or not a guest is going to come back. Right, you say, oh, their restrooms were filthy. There's no way. If they can't keep the restroom clean, how do they keep the kitchen clean? Right, I walk into restaurants I'm in a restaurant at least once a day, every day of the week, every day of the year, whether it's to consume or evaluate or go.

Speaker 2: 4:38

Look at, 80% of the time the front door has fingerprints and grease all over it. So my first impressions are hours of operation, a door handle and a dirty door, right and so okay. So I set my expectations and it just seems to me that so many restaurants today have no Windex. They just have no glass cleaner. There are sneeze guards you can't see through, there are windows that you can't see through and there are front doors you can't see through and that is what the guest is looking at, while they're either making a decision on the menu board, ordering because it's an order as you go type of concept, or it was their first and it will obviously be their last impression when they leave, because that front door should always be spotless. And so cleanliness for me. I put traffic, I put cleanliness right up there with achieving traffic and traffic growth.

Speaker 1: 5:23

That's really interesting because, think about it, you compare a restaurant to like a retail store. Where how many points of failure are there? In a retail store, it's like you get the shirt from the back, you fold it, you put it out and then you refold it when someone tries it on or messes it up, and then you ring it up. Right, there's like seven points of failure. In a restaurant, there are like 3,000 points of failure, 100%, and every one of them can be dirty. Exactly right, and I think that's the thing is like. You think about all the work that you've done to create a brand for the menu, for the training, for all of this stuff, and you're spending hundreds and thousands of dollars to do this for an amazing build out, and you don't clean the front door.

Speaker 2: 6:10

And that comes down to training and culture. Because if your staff knows you're all about cleanliness and your staff knows you're all about organization and having things in their right space, then that's obvious. When you go into Chick-fil-A, you know exactly where the straws are, the windows are always clean, you know where the napkins are, and you know that from a guest perspective. But if you're an employee there, you know exactly where everything is and it's always going to be there and it's never going to be different, and you can move efficiently through the process of serving a guest. If you go into a restaurant where the employee doesn't know where the X is and the customer says, can I have an X? That employee leaves the guest experience to go figure out where the X is and they either never come back or they come back with an answer that's not going to be satisfactory to you.

Speaker 1: 6:56

And I think one of the keys is the training, like you're talking about, which is why we're huge fans of Opus. We have an integration with them. I think that training platform is brilliant. Rachel. There the CEO is an amazing person.

Speaker 1: 7:09

But as we look at the training aspect, it's so critical because it's like I go into. I don't want to throw this specific brand under the bus, but like there's a brand that I go to and sometimes I go in and, depending on who is on shift, is dependent on like the experience that I get. Now you go into a Chick-fil-A, I don't care what Chick-fil-A I'm in, I know that doesn't make a difference, right? It's like I can see if there is stuff on the table. I know that there is going to be I mean a minute maybe at a Chick-fil-A that someone will leave stuff on the table and it won't get cleaned up At other restaurants, no matter how big they are. It depends on who's on shift and it depends is it going to stay clean or not. It depends on the manager, it depends on the staff, training and culture.

Speaker 2: 7:56

Training and culture. Yeah, and in and out is another example those employees all wear white outfits with white aprons. We have restaurants around us that have black restaurants and black aprons. Around us that have black restaurants and black aprons and they can't keep them clean. But with ketchup and grease in and in and out, everybody's apron is spotless.

Speaker 1: 8:19

How does this happen? I love that. It's culture and training. One of the important things there is to know, like, what are you supposed to be training on To your point. There's some table stakes we need to get everyone to a certain level for this but then it's about how do you adapt the specific training based on that location, based on what are they winning at and what do they need to work on, and I think that's where you have really great area managers and great tools that allow you to listen in on that and to understand what's going on even when you're not there. So is there anything and I love that? We talked about training and culture and, like the cleanliness, do you think there's anything that has changed over the years that you've been in restaurant in terms of, like something that maybe guests used to care about and don't, or maybe something that they didn't care about and now they?

Speaker 2: 8:59

do. I don't know if it's something that's gone away, but something that has drastically changed our world. Right is the technology stack. We used to have restaurants that had a cash register in them and they had a credit card reader, and that was about the extent of the technology stack. Today, to run a restaurant, you need to be a master of IT. In addition to the guests and the service and the food and the cleanliness, you have to know what's happening and how to fix or how to engage or how to move the process along in the technology stack.

Speaker 2: 9:31

Now, with third-party delivery and how that integrates, I mean, at the end of the day, it's all about gaining more share, but what our industry has done is move so fast with trying to maintain that share that the technology is playing catch up, and I can point to 100 restaurants where the technology is not fully integrated and it's a disaster for the customer to get their food, either to order their food, to find their food, to get their food, and whether that's in-store or through third-party delivery or through online ordering. It's just in today's world, in so many locations it's just not what I would call seamless. We all like to use the word frictionless and seamless and easy for the guests. Very few are doing that now. I mean it's getting better, but the technology stack has got to be top of mind or the guests of today, and certainly the guests of tomorrow, are not going to use your restaurant.

Speaker 1: 10:20

By the way, mr and Mrs Restaurant Owners, I hate to break it to you but your app and your tech and your ordering process and your that is not being compared to the restaurant down the street. That is being compared to Facebook, to Amazon, because those are the apps on the phone and nobody cares that you're not a 20, 50, whatever trillion billion krasillion dollar company. All they know is that their app on their phone for you is not working as well as it is for Amazon or, even worse, doordash for you is not working as well as it is for Amazon or, even worse, doordash. If DoorDash makes it easier for them to order, they will pay more for that ease. This generation, nowadays people are okay. They are okay paying more as long as they're getting what they're paying for.

Speaker 2: 11:07

And that might be just the experience of ordering. It could be just totally easy and I'm done. And that's what Amazon masters right? It's just click, click, click'm done, and that's you know. That's what Amazon masters right? It's just click, click, click done and it's at the house the next day.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Now the benefit is there's a lot of great tech companies out there that are helping. The challenge is how do you create that tech stack so, like you're building a Lego castle, that all of the pieces are actually fitting together to form this experience right? So love this conversation around, like the strategies. Talk to me about some tactics. What are some tactics that you've seen to improve the guest experience lately?

Speaker 2: 11:37

When you say tactics, what are we actually going to do to make the guest experience what they expect it to be? What are we going to do tactically around that? And I will always go back to the training, right, we just talked about the tech. Now let's say we have the best technology stack in the box and it's all integrated and it's seamless. If the hourly employees that are actually using that tech stack to drive the guest experience don't know what they're doing or don't know how to move it along, if it bumps, then the billion dollar tech stack that you put into your restaurant in a box is worthless.

Speaker 2: 12:11

It's a grandma with an iPad, right, yeah? And so tactically, you have to be able to perform every function. We put $10,000 ovens in our restaurant and then we hire a 16-year-old employee that doesn't know how to turn the oven on at their house, I'm sure, but now we put them in front of this $10,000 box with buttons and lights and digital timers and we train them for 30 minutes on that, and now they're an expert on an 800 degree oven. How the general public or the people in our world don't see the difference in that is unbelievable. And so the kitchens we put into the restaurants today are highly sophisticated, they're highly technologically advanced and we're still putting 16 and 17 year olds in front of them and not spending the time to train them properly on it. And you expect the cake, the burger, the fry to come out perfect for the guests in that piece of cooking technology. It's not going to happen. So those are the strategies we have to rely on, and I go back to training on every strategy.

Speaker 1: 13:12

Yeah, I love that because I think that makes so much sense, and especially those 16, 17 year olds talking about like other job and retail opportunities. They could go someplace else. That's a lot easier, that's a lot less challenging, they're not on their feet as much, they're not dealing with as many angry customers and they could go there if they want. They're in the hospitality but if you train them and you help them feel like they are adding value to something, that's why they stay in hospitality.

Speaker 2: 13:41

Absolutely Right, absolutely Younger generation today is trying to figure out how to get 10,000 likes on a picture so they can be an Instagrammer and make a little money. That way they're not interested in sweating in front of an 800 degree oven. That's not even in their realm.

Speaker 1: 13:54

Yeah, well, and it's so interesting too, I think, about one of our customers. I was at a conference and she's got a whole chain of pizzerias and she was telling me that it was a Sunday afternoon and she got a piece of ovation feedback that said, hey, your pizza was underdone and this is lunchtime on a Sunday. And then she got another piece of feedback your pizza was underdone. She got a third piece of feedback your pizza was underdone. And keep in mind, she's got 20 locations and they all were coming from this one location. So she literally got in her car and drove to that location to be like what's going on?

Speaker 2: 14:27

Now, the GM wasn't there, right, so it was just a shift lead that was there, turns out that they didn't have the pizza at the right temperature, and so she was the pizza sorry, the pizza oven at the right.

Speaker 1: 14:39

So she went over there, turned up the temperature and it was like a difference of like 15 20 degrees. But when it goes through that conveyor belt it was underdone compared to what it normally is, and every single pizza will be underdone exactly, and so she was able to like go there and fix that before even the lunch rush was over. But to your point about training, she doesn't have the tools to train her team on like. Okay, here's what you do if things look different on the pizza, or slow the conveyor, increase the temperature. She just didn't know that. Right, her team didn't have those tools and so luckily she was able to like get that resolved. But that was one of the things where training needs to be an ongoing thing, and it needs to Every single day.

Speaker 2: 15:23

Somebody should be training something.

Speaker 1: 15:24

Yeah, I love that. So now you know so many people in the restaurant industry, paul, so I'd love to get your take on this. Who is someone that we should be following? Who's someone that deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry?

Speaker 2: 15:37

That's hard because there are so many great operators out there and they interact with hundreds of them. You know, if I picked one I bumped into him last week at a conference I would put up there Jeff Alexander.

Speaker 1: 15:51

Jeff.

Speaker 2: 15:51

Alexander, ceo of WowBow. He has figured out a way we all look for silver bullets in our restaurants to really figure out how do we grow and in most cases, oh, it's real estate, oh, it's finding the right franchisee or having the capital to grow a company's stores. He has figured out a way to take his product at Wabau and get it into the hands of thousands and thousands of people. And he's looked beyond the typical brick and mortar store, the four walls, the box I talked about, and he has focused on non-traditional and different types of distribution avenues to grow that product. And he has grown that brand in a way that I never thought I would see him doing and I'm so proud of him for doing that.

Speaker 1: 16:37

He is such a great guy and so sharp. I've had the privilege of meeting him, being friends with him, and now he's an advisor to Ovation and so I get the privilege of talking to him all the time and the way that he thinks about things is so different because he's not someone who we talk about the four walls, but he took a brand that was a four wall brand and totally changed it into totally changed the format Arguably the only actually successful dark kitchen that there is and in terms of like how they run things and what they're doing and CPG, it's amazing to see what he's done because he hasn't been constrained by here's how things have to be done. So I think that's awesome and he's always kept the integrity of the product forefront.

Speaker 2: 17:26

So, no matter where he has moved his chess pieces to either procure, manufacture or distribute, he's always kept the product the way it was intended to be from day one and it hasn't changed. And that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Yeah, and talk about consistency. They've got some big, big plans over there at WowBow. I'm excited to see this next phase of his journey and it'd be, great yeah. So, paul, now unfortunately you're not big on X, you're not big on posting on LinkedIn If people do want to follow you do you ever post somewhere?

Speaker 2: 18:00

I post on Instagram a bunch, mostly personal stuff, but I'm on LinkedIn occasionally. I have thousands of people and I spend the time to accept them so we can always share ideas. So I am on LinkedIn and I am on Instagram. I'm actually on TikTok too. I just don't spend a lot of time there. I'm just there to see the companies that I work with and how they're performing and what kind of messaging they're sending on their TikTok channels.

Speaker 1: 18:20

Yeah, Well, that's awesome. The world needs more of you. And, by the way, I just texted Jeff to say hey, hope your ears are burning.

Speaker 2: 18:26

We're talking about you in the podcast.

Speaker 1: 18:28

His comment back in true Jeff fashion, was it was Paul's birthday two days ago, so good for him. He's a man of hospitality, a man of the people for him. Uh well, paul, for helping share a spoonful of wisdom from your ocean of knowledge. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you so much for joining us on given ovation.

Speaker 2: 18:49

Always fun, is it? Thanks, appreciate the time. Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 1: 18:53

If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.