Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast. I'm your host, zach Oates, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. It gives you all the insights you need, with none of the annoying surveys for your guests. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today is an honor because I have the distinguished Amy Hom with us and if you don't know her, that means you probably are new in the restaurant industry. So let me introduce you. She's the COO of Barcelona Wine Bar. She's board member on the Glean Network ResQ Lunchbox, former COO of Bluestone Lane. She was with Reef, sweetgreen, red Robin, wolfgang Puck, cpk. I mean, amy, you have done it all and it's an honor to have you here.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Well, you're aging me, Zach.

Speaker 1: 0:54

Oh, and she did three months at each of those brands.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Sometimes it feels like that, but they were a little longer than that.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Yeah well, amy, you've had such a distinguished career in this industry and so it's an honor. For those of you who might not be seeing our little clip, we are wearing matching hats and, truly, amy, you deserve an ovation because you've been doing so many incredible things. But we'll get to that in a minute. First, I want to hear about you. Have been deep in the operations of restaurants, and when you think about restaurant operations, what are some things when you go into a brand and you're looking at low-hanging fruit that you can get in and say let's fix that. What are some of the common things that you see that most restaurants need to improve when it comes to their operations?

Speaker 2: 1:42

First off, we need to give an ovation for Zach, who's been doing an extraordinary job, built this amazing platform. I'm a big fan, so nice job, and I hope you get ovation sometimes too.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Oh well, thank you, amy.

Speaker 2: 1:53

I'm just bummed, I didn't get a t-shirt, but that's okay. That's okay, I'll talk to your people.

Speaker 1: 1:59

And, all right, let's come to the booth. We'll have a bunch of that. All right, come to the booth.

Speaker 2: 2:01

We'll have a bunch of that array. Come to the booth. That is where I picked up this lovely hat. So some things you go into a restaurant and look for. I don't think it's any different than any other guest Hospitality. Are there smiling faces? The team having fun is the most important to me. Clean, safe environment for the team and for the food and the vibe. Everybody wants to be hanging out in a cool place with a cool vibe, so but if the team's not having fun, I don't want to be in there.

Speaker 1: 2:32

So you got to have a really great climate and culture for the team to be working in. So I get that in theory, but you have made a career out of that and I think the teams that you've built and how people talk about you as a leader is exceptional. You have actually a great quote on your LinkedIn oh, I just had it pulled up because I love that. But your backdrop of your LinkedIn you talk about. If your actions create a legacy that inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, then you are an excellent leader. That's a Dolly Parton quote. Love me some, dolly. She's someone who works like nine to nine, not nine to five. How do you do that in practicality? Because I think there's no one who would disagree with you, but the people who agree with you a lot of them are still terrible bosses. So, like how do you create that environment?

Speaker 2: 3:14

I agree with. There's some folks out there that are not great for culture, but culture creates great results, and so if you want to create a climate of development where people you're literally zoned in on that person, what they want to learn, what they want to work on, you're giving them that time, you're writing it down, you're putting your phone away and making it intentional. That's important. We do heart checks. A lot of people heard that. I know Stacey Cain and some of the other folks in the industry are now doing them with the franchisees, which is awesome and hilarious.

Speaker 2: 3:47

But question of the day is to learn about people. You can't get on a call and just Zoom, like you and I were chatting before this call. It's like you're getting to know each other. You're still vibing, but you got to make sure the teams are doing okay. More people are living alone than ever these days. Mental health is an issue, and that's a lot of our team members.

Speaker 2: 3:59

We're still the second largest employer in the country when it comes to restaurants, right past under the government there. Well, that may have changed. We might be the number one now. Small dig there, but there's a need for connection. There's a need for connection for our teams and there's a need for connection with the guests that walk into our restaurant and if we can make, create an environment that leaves them better than how they walked in or how we found them team members, guests, vendors, everyone then you've got this culture that people want to belong to.

Speaker 2: 4:31

But you have to care. And is it extra time? Sure is. Is it extra energy? 100%. But you get back what you put in, and so we really strive to do that and it's important.

Speaker 2: 4:42

And we just saw, and so we really strive to do that, and it's important, and we just saw we were just doing our numbers we just saw a 30% reduction in turnover. That's training dollars, that's all these things, since we've all been on board doing these things of development planning in 30, 60, 90s and having them read the first 90 days when they join. All these components, skill building, practice sessions, all these things tie into that. One big thing, which is probably one of the largest costs behind labor and COGS, is that retention and turnover piece. So it all comes down to do you want to go to work when you wake up in the morning? I know you love what you do because it exudes when you walk through, when I'm around you, like you just have this positive ball of energy that everybody wants to be around Zach. If they could be Zach when they grow up they'd love to be.

Speaker 1: 5:28

Well, maybe when you get to be my age, amy, I'll give you some of the secrets.

Speaker 2: 5:32

Your age, oh my gosh, anyway. So it is what kind of energy you bring into the business, and so you might be having a bad day, but you're leading troops and nobody cares. So you have to care more about them than you do about yourself.

Speaker 1: 5:43

Yeah, let's get a little deeper, because I think this is so great and I think that, as a leader, you're someone who I've always seen talk about, someone who lights up a room. You go in and you have such positive, fun energy. I remember the first time that we actually met, we were at a dinner and sitting next to each other and I was just cracking up. You just make everyone around you happy, but even the great Amy Hom has a bad day every now and again. As a leader, what's some advice that you have to still bring it, still bring the positivity and that great energy, even when you're not feeling it.

Speaker 2: 6:19

I don't not feel it and I'll tell you why. When you look at and this may sound so dramatic and it probably is to some people listening, but I'm very grateful my arms and legs work right now- and I'm happy I get to wake up in a bed.

Speaker 2: 6:33

And it depends on if you don't do gratitude or think about those things. You can go down a rabbit hole pretty quick because there's a lot of stuff in the world that's just crazy and can bring you down, and there's so much good in the world that we're still living in. And so I grew up in a crazy area in St Louis and I'm very fortunate to live out in California Not that there's anything wrong with St Louis, but where I grew up and a lot of the people that know me from my childhood agree not a great place where we all grew up. But now I'm living a dream that I never thought that I could be Now. Did I get here and push myself? Yes, I'm a learner. I'm big on strength finders. I'm big on development.

Speaker 2: 7:11

Somebody asked me today what's one thing you're trying to focus on this year, and it's always seeking knowledge. So if there's something I can learn from someone, I will leech myself onto that person, figure it out and, like spend time. But you have to invest in what you want to do in life. You've invested in your company and building it and all of that. You've invested in your company and building it and all of that, and we're all trying to do the same thing in our own way. But things don't just happen to you. You have to actually go, chase them and make them happen.

Speaker 1: 7:33

So are you a woo Amy?

Speaker 2: 7:35

I'm not a woo.

Speaker 1: 7:37

No way.

Speaker 2: 7:38

No, I'm still a realist. I'm still a realist. My number one is futuristic. So I'm very much a visionary. I can look at something or walk into a restaurant and say, oh, this could be this if we did this strategy to get there and we built this business this way with the right people.

Speaker 2: 7:55

But I'm pretty far away from a woo. I'm easy on people, tough on standards. If I have to fire you because you can't figure it out and get results or take feedback, then you can't play in the sandbox. So that's definitely not the woo side, that's the opposite side of it. But the relator and some of those other people pieces I have. But I also think there's a line in the sand on getting results and making sure that the people that are working with you are driving them and having fun along the way. But they should feel like they're part of an A team and you can't keep the as everybody knows. You can't keep the C and D players because your A team becomes less of that can't keep the as everybody knows. You can't keep the C and D players because your A team becomes less of that.

Speaker 1: 8:30

So so what do you recommend? Let's say that you've got some B players and what are some signs of if they can make that jump to being A players? Because I think D and C players that's one thing right. It's like we know that people that aren't performing can't keep it.

Speaker 2: 8:44

Not a good fit for the business.

Speaker 1: 8:45

But there are some B players where they're like, ah, if they just did this, they would be an A player. How much do you put into those B players and how do you coach them and how do you know if it's just not going to work long-term, if they'll never be an A player?

Speaker 2: 9:00

Very simple they can either take feedback and adjust, or they can't.

Speaker 1: 9:04

Interesting.

Speaker 2: 9:06

So if I'm working with somebody in a role and they want to get promoted and you're giving them feedback on how to get better and they don't write it down and they don't follow up with you and they're not coming to you with, hey, these are things I'm working on, which, of course, we have that in the conversation, they don't get anywhere. And I worked for a CEO once and I was getting in the car. This was a large, publicly traded company and I said why are there some people you spend time with versus others, and who gets promoted versus not? And he goes the people that can take feedback. And that's something I learned from the famous Steve Carley who turned around to play a local in Red Robin and that stuck with me and he is absolutely 100 percent right.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Wow, that is powerful. That is like knowledge bomb of the decade, because I think that's such a great benchmark. Can they adapt, can they adjust, even if your feedback might not be totally right I think, as leaders, we're not going to be right all the time, we're often wrong and can they go in that direction and take that feedback and at least say, yeah, that's really good feedback as opposed to I know what I'm doing. That's really interesting.

Speaker 2: 10:14

And a lot of people can't take it and whether they're a business owner and a vendor's giving feedback like, hey, this way. And they're like, no, this is how my product is, this is how it works. It's like, no, we need you to bend. I think you do that really well. You listen to what's going on and when I was talking about our business, you're like this is what I could do, this is how we can flex the model that's important for vendor relationship and being ovation and being on the number one. And then you go to other products and they don't listen and you hit a wall.

Speaker 2: 10:46

Or I get on the phone and the salesperson will say I won't even talk to the sales folks too much anymore. I'll say I want to talk to the engineers because I'll find out that the thing they were asking for is 20 ranks down on the engineer roadmap and they're not being honest. And I said just give me the engineer's number Only because of some of the advisory work I've done, I can see how both sides of this work. So I'm like I love you, but you're not who I need to talk to right now. So you have to be firm and fair. But I think taking feedback, at the end of the day, is the biggest thing. People get stuck in their roles and where they're at. If they cannot adjust, they're not adaptable and they can't take the feedback.

Speaker 1: 11:16

I mean, I was not expecting to get on and get a masterclass on, you know, dealing with employees and team members.

Speaker 2: 11:22

I am not a girl that gives a masterclass.

Speaker 1: 11:24

This is so spot on, because what we're talking about is the root of the guest experience, and, as we've said numerous times on this podcast, the employee experience can never exceed the guest experience, and so I love that we're starting with the last touch, which is the employees, and you could do all of the marketing, all of the branding, all of the decor, but if the person delivering the food doesn't have that joy, then it's not going to be hospitality, and, as Will Guterres talks about, service is giving the right food at the right time, the right temperature. Hospitality is how the guest feels about it, and I think that this is what we're nailing. But talk to me, though, about the guest experience. What are some things that you would recommend restaurants do to improve their guest experience, other than I think that you've nailed it on the head of the employee experience? What else about the guest experience, though?

Speaker 2: 12:16

The guest experience is all about our team, or a team, reading the guest right. Some people want to be connected to and talk to. Some people don't want to talk to anybody, they just want to come in for a bite to eat instead of the bar and have a beer or a soda. And then it's about making sure that the team is equipped with the skill set to handle any situation right. So it's a lot of coaching. It's a lot of pre-shifts communication.

Speaker 2: 12:41

What I have watched happen over the years I am talking out both sides of my head here is wage rates rose. Everyone's struggling, especially in states like California, illinois, where it's really tough to do business. You see New York. You see labor cuts right. You go down to Texas. You get better hospitality because they have more staff on, because the minimum wage can afford it. So, as you're thinking through how do you do more with less, you have to make sure that your A players are trained right, because now you don't have the luxury of having a C or D player serve your guests because you can only have so many people on with the budgeting and trying to make some money in the business. So it's important to constantly train.

Speaker 2: 13:22

I do think restaurants have gone sideways a little bit. They paused, where there's more mom and pops than ever, but they're not developing their teams. My son recently went to work at a pizza place. I said, hey, how's the training? They cut the training short. How's the development going? There's no development. They throw him in All of a sudden. He turns 18, and now he's a shift manager.

Speaker 2: 13:43

And I just started laughing, because that is what's happening with a lot of businesses. If you want to pause and you want to take a little bit of the money that you might be spending somewhere else and reroute it back into your people and invest in the teams, your business will thrive longer and the teams will be more, more invested and they'll actually want to help you make money and be successful. But right now, instead of you building slow to go fast, everyone's going fast and then going faster and falling, and so you see some of these concepts struggling a little bit or going out of business and hats off to them. People are giving everything they've got right now the sweats, tears and fuss, but those ones that do have a little bit of the money on the side. You should be investing in the people and I think those are the ones that thrive and will stand out and hang for the long haul through all of this.

Speaker 1: 14:30

And I would say before you put dollars in marketing, put dollars in your people, put dollars in training, Do not bring anybody in unless you are a raving fan yourself of that location or that business.

Speaker 2: 14:42

Absolutely not, and we've paused marketing. We only approve certain locations that are ready for it, because we're not going to bring people in until we're really running properly and then I'll say, okay, turn on the faucet, send some influencers in or whatnot, but don't send anybody in right now. We're missing a GM, or we're missing a couple of key components on some of our metrics that are important to us. Until we nail those, then they can't get the extra push.

Speaker 1: 15:06

Wow, that's powerful. I mean, the theory is good, but it's cool that you're actually doing that. I mean we just signed up a brand. They have a thousand locations, they're growing, they're doing great.

Speaker 1: 15:15

Thank you. But what was so cool was they created an entire internal doc all about Ovation, telling their entire company here's why we're doing it, here's what we're doing, here's exactly how every little thing works about it. And I went through that, I sent it to my team and I'm like let's do this. This is great. We obviously have our training materials and stuff, but they put together this entire program all about Ovation, have our training materials and stuff, but they put together this entire program all about Ovation. And I was so impressed and it just goes to show like they are really investing in the guest experience and they're investing in their team and they're making sure that when they bring on a vendor, it's not like great, the end is not the signature, that is the beginning, and a lot of times it's a partnership.

Speaker 1: 15:59

Exactly, but I feel like what happens sometimes is the signature comes in and then certain restaurant brands they'll be like, okay, great, now just do your thing, and I'm like okay, but like we need to partner on this. We're a tool and we need to be used, and so I would just encourage everyone to think about the vendors that they're using and how can they get their teams more engaged and how can it make their team's lives easier. And I think most tools are designed to do that, but if you don't use them correctly, they'll do the opposite.

Speaker 2: 16:30

Well, if you don't deliver the message, explain the how and the why, especially with the generation that is in the workforce right now then you lose them. And so the old school restaurant leadership I think was directive Now it's about participative and affiliative leadership styles. And how do you bring them along? That's what's so critical is and nine times out of 10, they have better answers than we, than I do, and so I'm like what do you guys want to do here? Here's the goal, here's the goalpost. How are we going to get there? And each person leading our market might have a different way. They need to align. So we're all walking in lockstep. But that's where you have to go slow to build properly. And that's what that company is doing right. They're building slow. They're making sure everybody understands the program. They're getting the buy-in. That's the most important. They get the buy-in. Then they can go really fast with the program and start executing at a high rate. I think that's great. They're doing that.

Speaker 1: 17:18

Amy, who deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry, who is someone that we should be following.

Speaker 2: 17:23

I think you need to follow Stephen Mercer at Mendocino Farms. So Mendocino Farms is, of course, in a growth state. They've got some great leadership over there, but Stephen Mercer, who is one of their VPs, is a complete badass. He has the west side of the states. I worked with him in a past life and is this leader that everybody wants to follow. Positive energy explains the why. Has great, great listening skills, very active listener and people want to work for him. So I'd give him a big ovation. I think he deserves one. He's had a long road and he's pretty resilient and he's got a lot of grit, so very proud of where he's at.

Speaker 1: 18:00

Awesome. Well, definitely a huge fan of Mendocino Farms and they've done some amazing things. But, amy, how do people find and follow you? And Barcelona Wine Bar.

Speaker 2: 18:10

Well, I'm on LinkedIn just like everybody else.

Speaker 1: 18:14

But I do have to say you do post occasionally. If you follow Amy, follow her comments. Her and Jim Mises, I think, are two people in the industry who just leave the best comments on posts, because anyone could post a thoughtful post. But you, amy, you post thoughtful comments and so I need to shout that out because that's something that so few people do and you rock at it, but okay.

Speaker 2: 18:37

Well, you got to think about it. If you have an opportunity to fill somebody's bucket, why wouldn't you? So if it's somebody's birthday or anniversary or just special day, they have a special accomplishment. Again, it's easy on people, tough on standards, and if they deserve it, then we need to pause for a minute, because life is too short and our job is to fill each other's buckets at the end of the day. So we try to do that, we all try to do that as best we can. Life gets busy, but you should never be too busy to give somebody a little love.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Love that and Barcelona Wine Bar. Is it all the handles? Barcelona Wine Bar.

Speaker 2: 19:08

Yeah, barcelona Wine Bar. We also have Corsica. We have a second brand. We're opening our second location, reston Virginia, soon, so that's going to be right by the Reston Barcelona Wine Bar right around the corner there. So, yeah, we'll have our two brands up and going and thriving. So, looking at some LOIs to grow and super excited If you've not been in one. Even if you don't drink, we have great non-alcoholic cocktails, mocktails, wine but we have amazing chefs in every location that create tapas and change the menu every day. So it's pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Super cool. Well, amy, for teaching us the barometer of how employees take feedback and for just being a light in this industry. Today's ovation goes to you because you deserve an ovation, as it says on our hats.

Speaker 2: 19:49

Love it. Thank you so much. You did too, Zach. You give everybody ovations back to you.

Speaker 1: 19:55

Well, thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation, Amy.

Speaker 2: 19:58

Thanks, Zach.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.