Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests. With all the questions. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today I am so excited we have a legend of the industry, sebastian Silvestri. He's a CEO of Dynex Group, chef Danielle Bouloud and I mean Sebastian has been all over the world in hospitality London, dallas, bora Bora, vegas, la, miami and now New York City. Sebastian, thank you so much for joining us and giving an ovation.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Thank you, Zach. I'm really happy to be with you today and thank you for the great honor.

Speaker 1: 0:52

So obviously you've worked all around the world, sebastian, and is there anything that you've found that's super unique? I mean New York City and Bora Bora. I don't think could be more different. How has hospitality played into those differences?

Speaker 2: 1:09

I think every place is very unique and I can tell you that I have a fond memory of Bora Bora and the people there and the Polynesian. I think hospitality is unbelievable. They're very loving, very affectionate. I think every place you work in the world is kind of humbling because every culture is different and you learn a lot from being exposed to all those different cultures. And I remember when I moved to Bora Bora that's so funny I was 27 years old. My first daughter was just born and that's why we decided to move there and the guest experience.

Speaker 2: 1:43

People travel from all over the world to go to borough. It's like a dream destination and I don't think you travel for borough for the food. You travel there because it's one of the most beautiful place on earth. People go there for the honeymoons, they go there for diving, they go there for so many things. But the hospitality was unbelievable and for sure you learn. I think I've learned in all the places've been, no matter if it's in some of the most challenging places, because there's some that are really really more difficult than others to a place like New York that I call the capital of the world. You know it's a city that is unbelievable and such a melting pot of so many different cultures in one city. And for sure, service looks very different in New York and the experience is very different, obviously, because you really have to tailor the experience depending where you are and where your audience is, but a very special place.

Speaker 1: 2:32

And in Bora Bora. How long were you there? For Just a year A year by the time that you left. Did it seem ordinary or was it like impressive every day?

Speaker 2: 2:43

You get used to it, it every day. You wake up, you see the beautiful, the thing. I was really funny. We live in what they call a motu. A motu is a very small, tiny island and we were living there with 40 expats and it's like you live there, walk there, you know it's like a 24 7 type of things and if you want to get out of this small island you have to take a boat to go to the bigger island and the bigger island it's also super, super small, but eventually with time you do get used to it, become your new normal. I think a year was just enough at the time. I think my wife at the time was going crazy living in a small island like this she was like I'm ready to go back to the US.

Speaker 2: 3:21

Like this she was like I'm ready to go back to the.

Speaker 1: 3:23

US. So you had one daughter when you were there, but you've got a few kids. I have two daughters, yes. So how does that work in terms of looking at your family and the restaurant world? How have you been able to both be a restaurateur and a family man?

Speaker 2: 3:39

Well, I think I've been blessed. I have an amazing family. My daughters love my life, so it's incredible they still live with me in New York. It's so fun. We've moved a lot, traveled a lot.

Speaker 2: 3:50

Like you said, I get in all these different places. I think it was hard at times for them to move so often. I think they were very upset when I told them, hey, we're going to move, when they were teenagers. But I told them I'm doing it for you and you will appreciate it on the long run. I think today they do appreciate it. But how did I do that? I always try to count time for them and no matter how busy I am, I think it's very important to some degree to give me a sense of balance. If I don't see them, it really bothers me. So you know like Sundays the day that I really dedicate to the family. You know it's like unless there's something out of the extraordinary, of course, we always on, I'm always on, and then I think at the time I had a big corporate job in vegas, so it was a little easier than it is today to count. But at the same time, today, you know, they're 21 and 19, so they live their own life, they travel as much as I do.

Speaker 2: 4:37

I think I give them the bug of travel yeah and the experience, because that's the world we live in and I'm really happy where things are with them and how things are going.

Speaker 1: 4:46

Well, I think that's beautiful because, as research actually shows, that there are certain principles, both in a relationship between couples, between parents and kids, and between restaurants and guests, that are all the same, and one of the things that we found is that, if there is a negative experience, if you get into an argument with one of your kids or your spouse, or you mess up an order and you sincerely apologize, the relationship is actually stronger.

Speaker 1: 5:18

That guest is actually more likely to become more loyal. The husband, the spouse, the couple they're gonna be closer together. The parent and child spouse, the couple they're going to be closer together. The parent and child are going to be closer together than if there wasn't even that mistake in the first place. And so I think there's a lot of principles of hospitality that go worldwide and for every relationship, because, as I remind people, we're not serving customers, we're not even serving guests, we're serving humans. And I think that the difference between a marriage and a dinner, obviously the stakes are going to be different pun intended but the concept and the feeling is the same. And so I'd love to dive into your philosophy about what do you think are some of the most important aspects of guest experience nowadays?

Speaker 2: 6:02

So look, people like today. They're definitely not looking for a meal, they're just not looking for good food and good service. I think it's something of the past. People, if they go out, they're looking for an experience. I think we see people wanting to be entertained. I think people are going out to have fun. I think our job is to look after people and, of course, pay attention to details and making sure we go above and beyond for them, but I think also, really, people want to be entertained.

Speaker 2: 6:27

We just opened our new steakhouse called la tête d'or and it's really fabulous. And then the whole experience is entertainment. If you sit in this room beautiful design from david rockwell, ice ceiling, open kitchen, the grill with burning wood right there, the cohenia steak right there so you're really entertained by the whole thing the music, the lighting, everything is really, really special. And then you're going to see your captain going on with the trays and they open the trays and carving the prime rib which is an insane prime ribs yeah, this little ranch from texas that daniel selected to meet there and we're carving this table side and putting the salt. The next table might have a Caesar salad and we're making a Caesar salad right in front of them, and then the next table is adding a salt meuniere, and then you have the captain that is deboning the salt, et cetera. So I think it's a show, and not only in our restaurants. People go out, like you said, they want an experience, they don't want just a meal and they want to be entertained, they want to be looked after, they want to be surprised, they want to see things they haven't seen, or things they haven't seen in a really long time. I'm going to give you another example At Restaurant Daniel.

Speaker 2: 7:35

Restaurant Daniel is an institution in New York City. It's a restaurant that is 32 years old, one of the most successful French restaurants in all time in America, and you have people that go there for this very special experience multi-course dinner, the presentations are amazing, the chef always sorts the finest ingredients, the service is impeccable, everything just top-notch. And then we just launched, like a week ago, to bring back a duck at a press. I don't know if you know what a duck at a press is. It's a really old school dish where we basically cut the duck in front of the guest and then, with the bones from the duck, we put them in this machine and then we press it, we press the bones and come out a juice and with the juice that comes out of it and the blood, we make a sauce. We do all this in front of the guests. It's a show.

Speaker 2: 8:25

We just announced it last week and we just announced it on Instagram that we're bringing this dish back. And then the post got crazy viral and everybody messaging us oh my gosh, we want to come for this, we want a reservation, we want to try this and all of this. So that tells you again that people are looking for experience. They're looking to see things that they haven't seen. They want to be surprised and delighted, and so I think that's that of where we see the evolution of dining today. It's not just to tick a box. I'm hungry, I'm going to eat. It's where could we go and spend the evening and have the time?

Speaker 1: 8:59

And for those types of restaurants that are check the box, like, hey, I just need to get something to eat. I think the biggest thing they're looking for is just accuracy, right, and I think that whether someone's spending a lot of money to go out and look for entertainment right, where they're basically nowadays, it's too expensive to go to a movie and dinner. You got to choose one or the other, and so when they're looking for the evening out, I think you're exactly right they're looking for something a little more pizzazzy than just your normal dinner used to be. No, man?

Speaker 2: 9:30

very true. And look, people have a lot of options. Like you said, they can go to the theater, they can go to a Broadway show, they can go for dinner, they can go for dinner. They can go to so many things. Right, they can go to watch an NBA games and, honestly, what I see is people are going out, especially in New York and even everywhere around the world. People are going out. They're choosing to go out for dinner and have fun.

Speaker 2: 9:48

Dining out is expensive for plenty of reasons. The cost of doing business in our industry is extremely high, so there's no other way to do it. I think there might be a perception that it's very expensive, but it's very expensive for the restaurateur all of them across the country, no matter if you're selling a sandwich or a fine dining meal. It's a very labor-intensive industry. The cost of goods have been going up crazy in the last few years. The occupancy costs are really high, but the reality is the guests. They choose to go out dining. This is what they want. First of all, I think everybody loves good food and good wine and good cocktails. I think that's a given. But on top of that, they want this experience and they want to be surprised and have good time.

Speaker 1: 10:31

Yeah, and I feel like a lot of people. What it comes down to is people are okay spending their money. They just want to know that they're going to get what they're paying for Really good point.

Speaker 2: 10:41

I say that all the time. The value proposition, no matter what you do, is so important. No matter if you're buying a $10 sandwich or you're buying a $400 tasting menu. When pairing, the value piece proposition is super important. I mean, even I'm the first one as a guest, I always look at the experience at the end as it wasn't worth it, right, yeah?

Speaker 1: 11:05

yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:06

And sometime you finish somewhere you're like, oh my gosh, I had the time of my life. This is amazing. I had so much fun and it was so good and it was a learning experience almost going there. It was just incredible. Or sometime you might leave and say, well, that was not worth it. So I think it's very important that we have to be really critical as we run our business, to ask ourselves those questions. It's how we deliver on the experience.

Speaker 1: 11:30

And I think that's unbelievable to hear from what most people would look at the types of restaurants that you've always run. You look at that and you're like there's no way they're ever talking about value. But I love hearing you talk about that.

Speaker 2: 11:46

It's about price. There is a lot of price sensibility in the market, no matter what level you're in, and we want people to feel good when they come to us, Even if the whole experience is amazing. But then if they leave and they feel like they've been and it doesn't feel right, this is wrong. So the sentiment of value is very, very important.

Speaker 1: 12:06

I love that because I talk about it all the time of even a vending machine. Right, you put in a dollar most people in this country they could afford a dollar to put into a vending machine to get out some candy or chips. If I put in a vending machine to get a candy bar and the candy bar gets stuck, I mean I'm furious. Right, and yeah, you're shaking that vending machine and it's only a dollar, but yet people will go to the hospital with broken hands. It's the principle, right?

Speaker 2: 12:36

It is the principle A hundred percent. I'm with you a hundred percent. The value is we're very cautious. Every year we review what we charge. Several times a year we review everything that we charge the guests and we take it very, very seriously. We don't want to feel expensive, we don't want to be expensive, we want to be fair. But at the same time, when you sell one of the most expensive bottle of wine, there's still going to be a cost to it. Or if you source the best uni from wherever it's coming from, and you have to fly it to have it there and it's coming from Japan, there will be a cost to it. There's no choice to it. But we're still going to provide value and super important.

Speaker 1: 13:16

Yeah, sebastian, you've given us a whole bunch of tactics here for the astute listener. Right, you heard about bringing back experiences, looking for, maybe, dishes that you've had off the menu for a while, doing things that are going to surprise the guest, or looking at, a couple times a year, the price and looking at the value. Are there any other tactics that you would recommend to improve the guest experience?

Speaker 2: 13:41

Well, when you look at the whole experience, I think everything plays very special roles. I think I always say you need to have the foundation right of hospitality. I'm going to give you some example. When you enter a restaurant, in my opinion, you cannot go in a room and it's freezing cold, or you cannot go in a room and it's too hot, or you cannot go in a room and the restaurant is not clean perfectly, you can have it. So there's a lot of fundamentals that are given that everybody needs to be obsessed with.

Speaker 2: 14:05

I'm obsessed with this when I walk into a restaurant, about all the little things that are super important, that you need to check the box and make sure you have them and then you have everything else is how do I'm going to make your experience today, zach, super special? And how do I'm going to make that happen? And if I know you a little bit and I know what you like and what you don't like and where you like to sit and all this little thing there, and if I challenge myself is Zach has been to the restaurant 58 times. Why is he coming today? Are they celebrating something? Try to get obsessed with the experiences. How can I surprise you this time. What can I make for you that will make you feel great, make it very special? I think that's what we have to challenge ourselves with every single guest and interaction people. When they come to our rations, very often they come for it's a special day and we have to go above and beyond that. They're just not coming to celebrate a birthday. They're spending time with their family. They choose to come in our restaurants. So I feel like we have responsibilities to go above and beyond and looking after them and taking care of them, and I think one of the secrets of the longevity of Daniel is how obsessed he is with the guests and how much he loves them and how much he takes care of them, and that's kind of what matters.

Speaker 2: 15:23

And then the team. We didn't talk about the people, but without the team there is no magic and there's no experience, and I think the success today in hospitality is the people that work with you. By your side, we employ hundreds of restaurant individuals. In New York City, every restaurant is a family, making sure you have the most engaged, passionate, trained people. There's no good service without a good hospitality, without an employee that is engaged and happy to be there. So we have this responsibility to hire great people that have the trade that we're looking for, and then we have to care for them, look after them. Others will say we have to look after them not only in the good time, but also during the difficult time. Yeah, I think that's beautiful. The number one challenge in the industry today is staffing. If you talk to anyone around the world, your friends in London, friends in Asia, friends all over.

Speaker 2: 16:15

What is the number one issue in hospitality today is finding talent. So the advice I give people all the time is take care of the people that you have Instead of be focusing in all the time is finding new, high and new, high and new high. You have great people. Take care of them. Don't lose them. You already have them or elevate them, train them, give them a career and if you want to keep people today because if you're in the same position for too long, you might start to get bored People you know like young individuals. So they have the need to move, to get promoted, to be exposed, to go from one restaurant to another one, and I think that's very, very important.

Speaker 1: 16:54

I love that because, yeah, I mean, it's all about the people and we talk about it all the time is that the guest experience cannot exceed the employee experience and we need to make sure that our team members feel like that. They feel like team members and they feel like they're a part of building something special.

Speaker 2: 17:11

Everyone in a restaurant plays a role to the success, no matter if it's a front house employee or back of house employees. No matter their position, they're critical to the experience.

Speaker 1: 17:27

Amen Love that. So, sebastian, you obviously have been in this industry for decades. You know everyone who do you feel like deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry. Who is someone that we should be following?

Speaker 2: 17:34

Well, daniel is a given. I think he's my hero. When I see his career and what he's done, it's really incredible. But outside of our industry there's so many people I respect For Italian food. There is this chef, stefano. He's got to manage two restaurants in New York City. He's got Resdora and Massara some of my favorite restaurants. I love Italian food. He's so passionate. His food is Italian food from Emilia Romagna in Resdora and my father is Italian and when I go there the food is as good as when I'm in the small village in Italy. So he kind of transports me and he's so passionate, so he's one of my heroes for Italian food because it's so authentic, so perfect.

Speaker 2: 18:13

Then there's Simon Kim. That is crushing it the founder and CEO of Gracious Hospitality. He's got Coat and Cocoday. We were just there yesterday and let me tell you he took care of us and gave us such a great time. He really put on the show for us and we had a blast and when you look at it, we were eating fried chicken but we had the best experience you can imagine and he really I think he deserves all the success that he has because they're doing a great job, with the whole experience Very different than what we do.

Speaker 2: 18:42

I think we do two different things, but we have so much in common to some degree, and I was very impressed with what he's done and the experiences he's given his guests, but it's so many people that I have so much respect within the industry. I think it's an industry where people work so hard and make so much sacrifices. When you look at it, we don't have one job in the hospitality. During the day you have a job and at nighttime you have another job. The daytime job is running a business like everybody else, because the margins are thin and you need to keep things tight and organized and make sure you're efficient and you make right decisions, etc. Etc.

Speaker 2: 19:16

So I think that's the daytime activity and then nighttime activity is showtime, taking care of. I think it makes such a huge difference when you eat in the restaurants and then someone come and visit you, say hey, zach, welcome back, it's so good to see you and have you back here, et cetera. It takes the experience from here to up here. You're being recognized, you're being cared for, and I think that's kind of what people want. So and there's so many people that do it very, very well around the city across the United States. I've seen so much in the last 20 years that I've been in the US and the level is constantly getting better and better and better and better, so it's very impressive.

Speaker 1: 19:55

Yeah, totally. I think that when we had Will Guder on this podcast, he talked about helping people feel seen right, and that's that innate human desire.

Speaker 2: 20:04

He did a book on the back Unreasonable Hospitality. What a great book. Great book and he's a great friend and he's incredible. He talks about passion right there when he speaks. It's just unbelievable yeah he's amazing.

Speaker 1: 20:17

He is someone who has figured out how to inspire people and I think that comes from within right. It like starts in and grows out, and I agree with that.

Speaker 2: 20:25

I think a lot to go back to. When I hire people, I'm looking for that sparkle in people, people that love people, people that love to that, have the patience, that love to look after, people that have this thing inside, and then we can teach them everything else. I think that thing is so critical.

Speaker 1: 20:42

Yeah, I love it. Well, Sebastian, where can people go to find and follow you and your brands?

Speaker 2: 20:48

Well, they should follow Daniel Boulud first, so they'll get better culinary tips than mine. All our restaurants are amazing. I think they're great to follow. If you like beautiful, fine-eating food, you should definitely follow a restaurant Danielle, Le Pabillon, Café Boulu, Maison Bang Georgie we have so many. La Tête d'Or, our new steakhouse, is fantastic. Bar Boulu on the west side, Le Gratin, a casual bistro, Lyonnais bistro. I would advise everyone to look at all our rations and follow them. We put a lot of work into the most simple thing. We just started a special at Le Gratin. It's a steak fruit special from 5 to 7. How do we get people engaged to come to Le Gratin earlier in the evening? And we put this beautiful special and it's this great steak fruit that you can have and it's like this most charming dining room. And then, of course, you can have a Cornell the brushe or you can have a salad Leonese, the really authentic Leonese cuisine, and not a lot of places where you can have authentic dishes like that.

Speaker 1: 21:51

That sounds delicious to me, Sebastian. So for giving us a tour across the seven seas of your experience, today's ovation goes to you. Thank you so much for joining us on Give an Ovation.

Speaker 2: 22:01

Thank you, zach, it was awesome.

Speaker 1: 22:03

Thank you Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.