Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today we have a good friend, a trade show staple, kendall Ware. Keynote speaker, franchise growth coach. He was the COO of Walk-On, the president of Cinnabon, the CEO of Orange Leaf Just an unreal rap sheet of what you've done in the hospitality industry. Welcome to Give an Ovation, kendall.

Speaker 2: 0:41

Thank you, Zach, Appreciate it man.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Glad we can make this happen. I know I feel like this is like two, three years in the making of trying to arrange everything, so I'm glad that you got here Now. One of the things that I see your LinkedIn content is just so inspirational. You care so much about people. You're very authentic. Talk to me about when you started posting more on LinkedIn and you started doing that. Are you glad you did it? Do you wish that you would have like posted less, now that you're kind of a thought leader in the industry now At first right, it was really the idea of all the things that I talk about or do daily in a brand.

Speaker 2: 1:19

Obviously, it impacts that brand and the people involved, but it's a much smaller scale in comparison to what it could be. So I can't remember where I heard it, but I heard somebody say several years ago that if you want to start creating content, just start posting and talking about what you're doing on a day-to-day basis. Look at your calendar, recap the meeting in your head or some key takeaways, and just start sharing that instead of trying to struggle and think about what should I go talk about? And so it really became a hey, here's what happened today.

Speaker 2: 1:46

I'm going to go ahead and share this and a couple of things got some good traction. A lot of good feedback was coming back and forth, but there's also days where it's very low engagement. You wonder if anybody saw anything right. But it's more about what you know. The value can be for those that do see it so it could be one person. It for those that do see it so it could be one person. It could be 200 people. Whatever that may be, at least I know it's adding value somewhere. And that's really what it became is how do I just share things that I've gone through personally currently experiencing right in the moment, or that I know people may just need to hear right now, given the current climate? So that was really the drive behind. It was how do I spread what it is I'm passionate about and the value that I'm adding to the people I work with to a broader audience?

Speaker 1: 2:26

For the listeners. If you don't follow Kendall, go follow him. I know we normally do that at the end of the podcast, but he's got great content, like I said, and it's a kind of content where it's not just like oh, that's like really insightful, but it's also content of like oh, I should do that and be a better person. So I appreciate that you put both of those flavors in there. Now, going into the restaurant world, as you have been at the helm of some of these just iconic brands and, by the way, I don't understand how you're not 400 pounds after working at Cinnabon. I know they call it the Focus 15. Wait, I guess now it'd be called the whatever.

Speaker 1: 3:00

The Go-To 15. Yeah, yeah right, not quite as catchy as the focus 15, but right, you get a fresh cinnabon and you get a middle that's like of someone that's just been frosted. It is hard to beat that, as you've been at the helm of all these iconic brands. What are some of the common mistakes that you see that if you walk into any restaurant, you're like all right, here's some things that you should take a look at in your brand.

Speaker 2: 3:28

A lot of them have been franchise brands. A lot of times it's about the franchise relationship to some degree, or a misconception, right, or a disconnect in terms of what you are promising your brand as a franchisor versus what you're actually delivering on. And a lot of this just comes from the churn that happens in the industry and you have things like an FDD or a franchise agreement where there's an individual franchisee who has read all this. Hopefully and most likely right. They've read all this, they signed up for it, they paid the check and they have an expectation driven off of those documents right. But if you have leadership that comes and goes and they're not consuming those same documents and living by them, it creates this natural disconnect.

Speaker 2: 4:10

So if I were to summarize the last 10 franchise brands that I've worked at or led, that's usually where I had to start was strengthening the relationship, clarifying what we're supposed to be doing as a franchisor, what we should not be doing as a franchisor, and really just educating around the legalities, but also that expectation in franchising. That's usually the go-to. From there I feel like every brand so far usually has some sort of operational disconnect when it comes to just having consistent KPIs cadences and when they visit and what they're supposed to do during their visits. It's usually these common areas that I see to, where you can literally apply a playbook. And going back to my comment earlier, this playbook I've had to apply and refine at every single brand. And now it's more about hey, how do I just take that playbook and share it with a larger scaled audience?

Speaker 1: 4:58

Well, and that franchisee-franchisor relationship is something that is constant strain there. It's tough to manage that, and you really need a lot of politicking, right, and it's politicking, but it's also just delivery. It's just like straight here's what I'm going to do, and then doing it and earning that trust, and I think that goes both ways. But, yeah, that definitely is tough. So, as you're looking about all this, though, I mean one thing that the franchisees and the franchisors could be on the same side. Of everything that we're doing the technology, the food, all of the ingredients, the locations it's all about the guest experience, and so what do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays?

Speaker 2: 5:38

It's how are you going to make it a memorable experience for the guest, so the person who's actually coming into the four walls? What are you going to do to make it memorable in a positive way? You don't want it to be memorable in a negative way, which does happen, as we all know. But how do you make it positive and to your point? That is usually the common ground that you share between franchise or franchisee. So it's so easy to tie back the conversation or the new launch that you're working on or whatever the change is happening in the brand. If you can tie it back to the guest experience, usually you can gain the buy-in. If you can't tie it back to the guest experience, then you got to ask yourself should we even be working on this or not? Because if it's not going to impact the guest, then what's really the purpose behind it? Don't get me wrong. There's some things you got to do every once in a while that may not ever reach the guest, but for the most part, that should be the common ground that you're aligned on. So, between the two parties, it's really how do you have a brand that stands for something bigger, that is capable of making something memorable and I always think about personally.

Speaker 2: 6:37

There's a diner down the street. Nothing special about it, it's just close. It's very convenient and when my son was six months old, my daughter was one. It was a crazy Saturday morning. Need to get them out of the house. I just walked to the nearest place. Okay, it's convenient.

Speaker 1: 6:52

By the way, I know nothing about that, kendall, that is complete foreign territory to me. Yeah, okay, you have it worse than I do. I'm totally empathizing. I am right there with you. I'm feeling the pain, I'm feeling the thinking about the whole day with nothing planned, and it's like we just got to get out of the house, just got to go. I'm with you. I'm with you.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Put them in the stroller, make my way out. I go to this diner. Okay, we sit down. Binkies are flying, people are crying, it's all kinds of drama. Right Wagers comes over to ask me my order. I haven't really looked at the menu yet. I saw something about biscuits and gravy. I saw something about having green chilies on it. I don't really know what it was. I just said, yeah, give me that. And I pointed at something. Okay, long story short, the item that I ended up getting was not something I had asked for, but I've now had it for almost five years because I go to that diner every single Saturday with my two kids. And what happened is I ordered something very random and they thought I ordered biscuits and gravy with green chilies on top of it. Okay, it's actually very delicious, but it wasn't my intent. Every time I came back each Saturday morning, they just kept saying you want the same thing as last time? I just said yes.

Speaker 1: 7:58

Okay.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Then it turned into never asking me anything. I would just sit down and they would bring me the meal my kids and I would all share, and over time I didn't really care what that was. It was just a matter of how the experience was memorable. It was contained, my kids were happy, they were fast about it. We didn't waste any time. They'd bring me my latte and it's a go cup because they know I didn't want to spill it. I wanted to walk home. They knew all these details. Okay, so the convenience factor of it being close to my house got me in the door.

Speaker 2: 8:26

The memorable experiences is what kept us coming back. Until one day we showed up, staff had changed and nobody knew who we were. I was handed menus, I was asked a bunch of questions, my kids were getting antsy, they were upset, they were crying. I did not want to go back. After that, gave him a few more tries and luckily the owner noticed what was happening and made a change. And the owner noticed what was happening and made a change. And the owner started actually documenting certain things that he could share about some of his regulars. So that way, if the team did change, they knew how to handle and what those expectations were. And ever since then, right for five years now, it has been the most consistent and fun and memorable experience that I have with my kids and in my household there is no Saturday. You got Monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday breakfast day, and then Sunday that's what my kids call it they go it's breakfast day, dad, let's go to breakfast spot, and that's just what it's become because of that experience.

Speaker 1: 9:15

See and that is amazing because we talk about this all the time on the podcast Convenience will get someone in the door, Consistency will bring them back, but connection will keep them for a lifetime, right.

Speaker 2: 9:26

That's right.

Speaker 1: 9:28

And bring them back, but connection will keep them for a lifetime Right and that connection is all about trust. It's all about where everybody knows you. I have never sung into this microphone. That felt very uncomfortable.

Speaker 2: 9:35

Sounding good, sounding good.

Speaker 1: 9:37

But I think you're exactly right, and it's like noticing those small things. For example, I took my son to Disneyland a couple of weeks ago and he got a little motion sickness from some of the rides. So we went in and I asked one of the staff members in a gift shop. I said, hey, do you have any Dramamine for kids? And they were like, oh yeah, it's behind the counter though. So they got it, they charged me for it, and then we walk out of the store and we kind of walk down the sidewalk and we sit on the bench right. So we're probably like a good, I don't know 30, 40 yards away from the store. And as we're sitting there, guess what happens?

Speaker 1: 10:15

A woman that I asked if they had germamine came out and she had apple juice and chocolate milk and she said, hey, can I give one of these to him to drink with a pill, Because she knew it wasn't a chewable pill. And so I was like, oh yeah, let's get the apple juice. And then she goes would you also like a bag in case he does throw up? And I said, oh sure, so she goes back, she comes back and she doesn't just hand me a bag. She had double bagged it, opened it up, gave it to me and then told my son hey, here's a bag in case you need to throw up, but if you don't make the bag, that's okay, we have people that'll help clean it up, right? It happens all the time and I just thought about that, about that little moment of she could have just said yeah, here's the Dramamine.

Speaker 2: 11:02

But instead here you go. Goodbye here you go goodbye.

Speaker 1: 11:04

But that's not the Disney way, that's not hospitality, right? Right, it's all about how you make people feel and that thought of oh, they need something to drink it with, and maybe they have something, maybe they don't, but let me take these drinks from the cooler, walk out, look for them, bring it to them. Stuff like that, I mean, that is the magic of Disney, that is the magic of hospitality, it's just helping people know that you care.

Speaker 2: 11:31

Right, right, right, it's special. I always say that to restaurant owners you have to set the expectation. Whatever that expectation is, maybe it can't be like Disney, maybe it can't be like the local diner that I referred to, but whatever your expectation is that you want to deliver on, you have to be consistent at whatever that is. That's up to you, that's your choice. People may not perceive it the same across the board but, like my kids have an expectation. Now, when they go in the restaurant, when we go somewhere else, right, they're like hey, how come they're asking us all these questions? I'll come in and bring me my special meal, but it's just different, right, because not all brands are the same. So, to your point, right, disney has their expectation, they live up to it. It's the details of opening up the bag, handing something they didn't have to hand over, but all that adds up and you now have that expectation right.

Speaker 1: 12:14

So it's just about the consistency factor. Absolutely, and I think that's the magic of those three cons right, convenience, consistency, connection, because you really do need to ladder up to them. I mean, had you gone back the second time and the biscuits and gravy were bad, maybe because they're so conveniently close, you may have come back one more time, but if they were again inconsistent, it doesn't matter how convenient they are. You're not going to waste your time on a Saturday with your family just to have a meal that you're not sure is it going to be good or not. So, that being said, with these restaurants, with these brands that you've been at and with the consulting that you do, now, what are some tactics that you've seen to improve the guest experience?

Speaker 2: 12:53

Actually leveraging the data you have access to. I know data is a big conversation. There's obviously things like CDPs and a lot more granular data you can get your hands on now. However, there's also just basic insights that sometimes get overlooked right or aren't being checked when there's a change or a problem happening. It makes me think about something that happened most recently at Walk-Ons right.

Speaker 2: 13:14

So we were going through a menu revitalization and you know, looking at things and percentage of sales and all the basics you would do, queso came up as one of those items that was a low percentage of sales. But also Queso kind of works for the sports bar makes sense. So why would you want to get rid of it? But sometimes you know this is how decisions are made. Well, someone said something about it's just a hard product. It's never really coming out right. Nobody really likes it All right. Well, let's go into the data. Let's understand why because it's queso when I've wouldn't like queso.

Speaker 2: 13:43

We dive into the data, right, and we go and find out what the real root cause is. And you have to go through first all the guests data you have access to right. Sales is one factor, but what are the guests and consumers saying about the product. What's the highlights there? And sure enough, you start digging and yes, there's a lot of comments about queso and three other items. So there's really four hot buttons that were being talked about a lot in relation to poor quality or not meeting expectations to some degree. So you keep digging and you dig, and you dig and, sure enough, there was no problem at all, but it was something so simple that literally changed overnight, not to be dramatic.

Speaker 2: 14:20

But what happens? You realize that consumers are saying all this, and so you go back and you start looking at your systems, your operational procedures. What's missing? Why would something be happening like this? Well, sure enough, out of the hundreds of items that that brand has to prep every single day, there's four items that are not on that list. And those four items happen to be the four items that have to be held in a heating container and have a shelf life of only four hours.

Speaker 2: 14:45

Well, because they were not on the prep list, they were out of sight, out of mind, and either people were putting way too much in at a time and it's obviously just drying out, going bad you're wasting a whole bunch or they weren't having enough and the product wasn't readily available Either way. We also noticed that of that item, it was the highest gap we had in food waste If you looked at theoretical versus actual. So all these factors pointed back and it was just that simple prep sheet that needed four items added to it so that way people knew how much to put out at a time and to actually manage it, to make sure you're not wasting it and you're still delivering high quality. We would have never figured that out without the data.

Speaker 1: 15:22

And I love that. One of our big things is like actionable guest feedback, because if you're not taking action on the guest feedback, there's no point in you collecting it. It's like take action now. And I think that's one of the powerful things about taking action on your data is that it's not only about finding that one-to-one hospitality how do you help that guest feel like they're known and cared about but also it's about using the data to find the consistent trends and differentiating between the one-offs and the things that need to be fixed fundamentally with the operational piece, as opposed to just like someone happened to not like the queso, that's okay, right. Not everyone's to not like the queso that's okay, right. Not everyone's going to like the queso, but if you're having operational issues, tweaking that. I think I love that concept.

Speaker 2: 16:11

And I think another tactic, and maybe more of a strategy I think brands should be more open to, is the idea of regionalizing whatever is going on in the brand. It's meaning that sometimes-.

Speaker 2: 16:23

So you maybe need to regionalize, meaning you're going to take something away in a certain region, maybe it's adding something different. But you hear a lot of brands who are focused on this idea of control. When it comes to operational consistency which by all means we all know you have to be consistent. It's almost like table stakes.

Speaker 2: 16:39

But there's a difference from being consistent to adapting to your local regions. Right, just because you have to do something slightly different in a region doesn't mean you're inconsistent as a brand. Your experience can still be the same, but sometimes you have to offer something different or do something different for that clientele or that area that you're having presence in, presence in, and so I think just having that open-mindedness to understand that, yeah, you know what? Maybe in this area we do need to entertain the idea of showing fights on television after 9 pm because we're a sports bar, versus over here in a certain region we should not because it's very kid-friendly. A lot of volume is kids doesn't make sense for that area. But this idea that one size fits all, I just don't think works as well anymore, and so there's got to be some adaptation that occurs to make sure that you can meet your consumers where they're at and be that place that they want to call home.

Speaker 1: 17:31

I love that. I think that that's so powerful because, yeah, you want to make it feel like the neighborhood, the neighborhood area, and I think that, regardless of what it is, I think there's some brave things like Chick-fil-A. Putting pimento cheese on all of this stuff. It's like, oh my gosh, I mean, do that many people actually like pimento cheese? Hey, you know what. Good for them for doing it. I love the boldness. Okay Now, last questions here. Kendall, who deserves an ovation? Who is someone that we should be following in the restaurant industry?

Speaker 2: 18:03

I would take a look at Todd Broderick and the whole team at Nucky's Hoagies. So Nucky's Hoagies is basically an emerging franchise concept out of Atlanta. I've been to Philly and I've had the debate between Pat and Gino's and I don't want to get your podcast canceled by talking about this, but I'm telling you they have an incredible cheesesteak right. It's one of the best I've ever had. But, long story short, they had this proprietary recipe that was known for a pizza concept based out of Boston. It was around for 20 plus years. They had 10, 11 units. It was iconic.

Speaker 2: 18:32

Well, they won a ton of awards for this pizza dough. Well, they were able to take this pizza dough and convert it into a hoagie recipe, and so it's something truly special. It's very, very, I would say, intriguing and interesting, and it just has this higher quality taste compared to most sandwiches out there when it comes to the bread itself. But long story short, they are scaling. They're in growth mode. They're doing things the right way slow and steady, but they keep people at the forefront of everything they do. They're all about how they drive a purpose and try to create some sort of positive impact in their communities. So awesome brand. I would definitely check them out and give them a follow and see what they're up to.

Speaker 1: 19:07

I mean their website and the menu just look awesome. Oh, yeah, love it. Yeah, it'll get you. And, kendall, where can people go to find and follow you?

Speaker 2: 19:15

Sure, so my website's the best place to go Kendallwarecom, nice and simple. That's where I have a lot of my content and offerings and services and all that. Then, of course, linkedin, as you mentioned, but also Instagram. I try to stay pretty strong and frequent on Instagram as well, but, yeah, any one of those platforms would be great.

Speaker 1: 19:32

Awesome. Well, kendall, for putting out ideas that inspire institutions and individuals to be better. Today's ovation goes to you.

Speaker 2: 19:39

Thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation. Awesome man. Thank you for having me Appreciate it. Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 1: 19:45

If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question SMS-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.