Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests. With all the questions Learn more at OvationUpcom. With all the questions Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today's guest is Sebastian Stahl, former hospitality leader, now founder and CEO of Breadth, where he helps restaurants with data driven marketing, and he is also an author and podcast host of Restaurant Leaders Unplugged. Welcome to the show, sebastian. How are you man.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Hey Zach, Thank you, man, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 0:43

You have such a great podcast one that I look up to, and I'm so honored to have you on this podcast, and I'm trying to put my best foot forward here, because I know you got some real notes. I feel like I'm just dancing in the club and I got a professional dancer here with me, so, anyway, I'm excited to chat, man, let's do it. So talk to me a little bit about breadth, and one of the things that I would love to get your thoughts on are what do you see a lot of restaurant brands getting wrong when it comes to marketing?

Speaker 2: 1:12

So, zach, I mean there's the basics right. More than anything, it depends on the size of operators, but usually small operators. The problem is that they just don't have a plan. There's no structure. They're just kind of winging marketing with whatever they have, like there's any emails, there's maybe collecting some customer data there, maybe have some promotions going on, just because they come up with it, but it's just very disorganized and there's no structure.

Speaker 2: 1:34

And I understand, because it could get busy once you're operating and let's say you don't have a marketing team or anybody that's helping you. You really don't have the time. So you're just kind of juggling and just putting things together as you go. And then you plan late, right, let's say they're doing something for Valentine's or Mother's Day, whatever it is. They're planning way late and they're just going out with what they can and they're just expecting for that to work. So the thing is, and it's like everything in the restaurant business, it's like right, it's systems. You're going to fall below the level of your systems. So if you don't build those, then you're not going to be able to get marketing right. And it's not that complicated.

Speaker 1: 2:08

That's really interesting. So systems you rarely hear someone who talks about marketing also talking about systems. Isn't marketing the fun thing and systems the boring thing? Like why is a marketing guy?

Speaker 2: 2:20

talking about systems.

Speaker 2: 2:22

Yeah, yeah, because it's everything right. Because everything out there, man, like all the shiny stuff, right, tiktok, whatever platform comes out, is a channel. That's all that is. So if you don't have the right structure and systems in place, you're not even going to know how to leverage that channel properly. So it's about building something right Again, a structure where you can say, okay, this is where my restaurant is at right now, these are the opportunities.

Speaker 2: 2:48

Let's say, if it's going to be one of my day parts, if it's going to be private events, if it's going to be what revenue center, is there an opportunity for my type of concept in my restaurant? So once you identify that, okay, now let's build a plan that's going to address those opportunities that I find and it's going to vary, of course, by concept, because a fast casual is going to be very different than a full service restaurant. So once you do that, okay, how are we going to address this? Okay, we need to generate, let's say, more private event leads for a full service restaurant. Hey, we need to really do our holiday promotions, execute them really well.

Speaker 2: 3:20

We have a great chef, let's do a menu, let's do all these things. So once you start putting all those things together, then you can create a plan and you can create now a calendar of the things you're going to be doing every single month, because, really, restaurant marketing is about having always an excuse to bring people back and talking to them, engaging with them. That's what we're doing here. So once you have that in place now, okay, how am I going to communicate these things to my audience? So you need to, first, of course, define your audience. You need to leverage all your customer database right If you're collecting data. If not, you need to go back to step one, which is collect all your customer data right.

Speaker 1: 3:55

Step zero, right. It's almost like you need customer data before you even need like food, you know.

Speaker 2: 4:00

A hundred percent, exactly. I know you're all about customer data, so like that's the name of the game. So, again, going back to systems, you need a system to gather customer data. Now, once you have that, then you say, okay, what channels am I going to use to communicate this? Do I have a customer database? Okay, email, great. I can use the data also for retargeting, for ads. Okay, my Google listing my website. I need to be in all these different channels where people are seeing my stuff, basically, and send all that messaging. It needs to be coherent, it needs to be cohesive, it needs to be the same messaging for every channel. It's not that complex, but again, it just requires planning and then systems.

Speaker 1: 4:38

I love that because systems are so key and, at the end of the day, when we look at everything we do in restaurants, systems are so key and, at the end of the day, when we look at everything we do in restaurants from the systems we put into the team to the ingredients that we choose it's all about creating a great guest experience, and so I'd love to dive into that a little bit with you, sebastian, as you're looking at the guest experience in restaurants. What do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays?

Speaker 2: 5:02

Listen, I think it still goes back to the same thing as it always meant. We're in the hospitality business, in the people business, so it's about being present with your guests, learning about your guests, understanding your guests right so we can provide the best guest experience. And, as you know, I've been in the restaurant business. I was in the restaurant business for a really long time guest experience. As you know, I've been in the restaurant business, I was in the restaurant business for a really long time, yeah, so it's about foreseeing those needs and meeting them.

Speaker 2: 5:30

You can have great food, a great place, a beautiful restaurant, but everything that really creates a guest experience is that personal touch. Now technology we're going to get into that, of course. You need to leverage it now so you can create the best possible guest experience and I think those two can coexist the personal touch and technology so you can even provide a much better guest experience. And I know that's what you guys are about as well, understanding that you're building relationships with people. It's not just about a transaction, and I know that can be challenging when you have a full restaurant, right, no-transcript. Again, going back to systems, if you've developed them properly, then you can provide the proper guest experience when people go visit you at the restaurant.

Speaker 1: 6:20

Even if it's tough, even if it's tough to train on that, even if it's tough to implement some of these things, when you can understand who is your guest and why are they coming in, so when you can start with the desire of the guest and then you create that thing that's going to fulfill that. And a lot of times, what people are doing is they want to feel heard, they want to feel seen Will Guderia talks about that all the time is helping your guests feel seen, and that's what hospitality really is. And technology can either be there to distract your team and distract your guest or they could be there to enhance the team and the guest experience.

Speaker 2: 7:00

When I was running restaurants. Again, it's about building those relationships. Every guest that came to our restaurant, I was appreciative of them, because it's about appreciating that they're coming to see you among all these other options that they have, and they're coming to check you out. They're recurring guests, even more so, because now it's like, dude, thank you for coming to see you among all these other options that they have and they're coming to check you out. If they're recurring guests, even more so, because now it's like, dude, thank you for coming to see again. Like, yes, we're providing an amazing experience, but they're choosing to see, to go see right, to spend money at your restaurant. So it's really about acknowledging that.

Speaker 2: 7:29

So, of course, you, as the owner, can go and like talk to any guests and you can do that really quickly, right, because those, as owners, like we, just know how to connect with their guests. But how do you train your team to do the same? Yes, exactly how do you scale that? I think, zach, that goes back to hiring. It's just finding the people that are in line with your values and who you are as a person and as a concept. So then it's going to be much easier for them to deliver on your promise and deliver that guest experience.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Yeah, and I think that that's what it really comes down to is so many times on these podcasts where we're over 350 episodes in, and so often we talk about the people because we understand you got to hire the right people. It is too expensive to hire the wrong person. So if you're choosing between a maybe good fit and no one, pick no one, because no one is better than the wrong one. And I think that's something that in restaurants and in life and in business in general, the customer experience can never exceed the employee experience, and that employee experience it doesn't mean you don't hire this person. It's okay, in fact, to go an extra month without a hire because hiring the wrong person it's too expensive, it creates really negative guest experiences and it hurts the team morale.

Speaker 2: 9:10

A hundred percent. And if you want to circle it back to marketing your team is a representation of your brand. Any experience that they have with anybody from your team, they're going to associate it immediately with your brand. So that server sucked. No, they're going to say that restaurant sucked, their service sucked.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Yes, exactly, it tarnishes way too much. And so, thinking about this and thinking about the marketing and the systems and the people and all of this boils down to the guest experience what are some tactics that you would use? So what are some things that restaurant operators that are listening right now can walk away and say, oh, that's something I could do?

Speaker 2: 9:49

So it's developing a system because the guest experience is going to be affected in every single touchpoint, not just in the four walls but also through any contact that you have, any touchpoint that you have with them. So may that be through somebody calling the restaurant and asking a question about whatever, just trying to make a reservation, just trying to make a reservation. You know, listen, you don't know how many times we've ran campaigns for clients and for summer restaurants and they would have, let's say, for Mother's Day and they had a special or whatever it is they came up with and people would call and the hosts would answer and we would record the call. So we know we can track the guest experience where we're listening into what's happening and it's like, sorry, what menu, what is it? And they wouldn't even know what is it and they wouldn't even know. So that already messed up the whole guest experience right there.

Speaker 2: 10:35

It's mapping out all your customer touch points and making sure that all of these are coherent and that everybody that has a contact with a guest is on the same page. Now, if that's a text message and automation, same thing. If that's somebody responding. A community manager responding to your social media comments, same deal. If that's somebody responding a community manager responding to your social media comments same deal. If it's somebody replying to your guest's feedback same thing. There needs to be a process in place for every single touchpoint in the restaurant and outside the restaurant, with all your guests right, or even potential guests.

Speaker 1: 11:10

I love that because the worst time to train your staff is when they go back to the manager and say a customer said this. What does that mean? Right, it's like it seems so obvious. But again to your point, and this is why I love that you started with systems. If you don't have a good system for training your team for getting that communication out there, it's impossible. There's too much of a game of telephone is if you get it from the top all the way down to the bottom, but you have to streamline that.

Speaker 2: 11:39

Again, it's SOPs, right. Develop SOPs for every single touchpoint and so everybody knows what they need to do and say hire the right people, of course, so they can do and say the right things, and so everybody knows what to do at every touchpoint.

Speaker 1: 11:54

Yeah, and if it's?

Speaker 2: 11:54

going to be all the other touch points that are not somebody actually interacting with them. If it's your website, if it's your private events page, they have all the information that they need. Whatever it is, everything needs to have a process, a system and a way of consistently be able to respond to your guests in the right way.

Speaker 1: 12:16

This is just a masterclass right now, listening to you in terms of how to think about marketing and it not just being this creative, fluffy thing, because you're coming at this as a restaurant operator, like you've done this, you've been there, you're not just speaking at this from a theoretical hey, I got my degree in marketing and here's what we should do, but, like, you've run restaurants before and that's why I think that when you think about a restaurant, a restaurant really is 90% operations and 10% marketing. If you were going to bucket it into those two things because it's good, you can come up with the most creative campaigns, but if people aren't executing on it consistently to meet the expectations of the guest, you won't be around for long. So I think this has been awesome. Now, sebastian, wrapping up here, you know so many people in this industry still having a great career. Who's someone that we should be following. Who's someone that deserves an ovation.

Speaker 2: 13:11

I would say there's a couple of people that I really like in the industry man that I do follow. David Scott Peters is one. He's a restaurant coach and I think he's fantastic. Dsp is the man.

Speaker 1: 13:20

I just hung out with him last week in Vegas. He's just so cool, so sharp.

Speaker 2: 13:24

He is man, he is super sharp. And then there's another great guy we interview actually on our podcast. His name is Arjun Sen. He goes beyond just restaurant branding. His deal is branding. His life story is spectacular. He went through, I think, 23 surgeries beat cancer, like all these things. So, his wisdom beyond marketing, beyond strategy and branding, is something else.

Speaker 1: 13:48

What's his name again?

Speaker 2: 13:49

Arjun A-R-J-U-N. They even made a movie out of his life. Arjun A-R-J-U-N they even made a movie out of his life.

Speaker 1: 13:54

It's called Arjun. His name is Arjun Sen.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Yeah, so check him out. I would definitely have him on your podcast if you can, because you're going to really enjoy that conversation. I did a lot From Zen Mango Yep. Okay, he used to be VP of Papa John's at some point, so he was up in the corporate ladder at some point with big restaurant chains and then he founded his own company. There's a whole story behind that and there's a story he wrote, also a book. He wrote about experience with his daughter and how he helped them see that he was not being present in her life and showed him that he was just so focused on climbing up the corporate ladder so he really changed his whole philosophy and it was just a beautiful story man, so definitely recommend to talk to him.

Speaker 1: 14:34

Well, I'm excited to go chat with him because we got our MBA from the same place. We both went to BYU to get our MBA.

Speaker 2: 14:40

So small world here.

Speaker 1: 14:42

Yeah, yeah, awesome. And now, Sebastian, where can people go find and follow you and where could they find your podcast? It's the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Yeah, restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast. Yeah, restaurant Leaders Unplugged. You can look it up anywhere YouTube, spotify, apple podcast, whatever any of those channels it's there. And then you can find us. If you need help with the marketing for your restaurant, building your systems and structure and execution, you can find us on breathmarketingcom, and that's it, zach awesome well, sebastian, for helping us stay plugged into Restaurant Leaders with your Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast.

Speaker 1: 15:15

Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you so much for joining us on Given Ovation.

Speaker 2: 15:20

Thanks, Zach Appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 15:22

Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.