Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions. And today we have Chris Schultz on the podcast with us. He is the CEO at Voodoo Donuts, but he is no noob to the restaurant industry. He's been at Starbucks 13 years, mod nine years. I mean, he has got experience and he's been CEO of Voodoo for over seven years. Now. You hit your seven year anniversary recently, right yeah it kind of just flew by.

Speaker 2: 0:44

But yeah, seven, almost eight years now coming up on eight years here at Zoodoo, so it's been a kind of whirlwind.

Speaker 1: 0:50

That's awesome and you're doing some amazing things. You have such a you're at the helm of such a cool brand, and one of the things that I kind of want to unpack is a little bit of the secret sauce. Here and right before the podcast, we were showing off our respective hats and you showed me a hat. Tell me the story of this, because I feel like this encapsulates so much of why Voodoo is doing so well and why you're constantly trying new things and how you celebrate that.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Yeah, so I'm a consumer, just like everybody else. You're a consumer, we're all consumers, right? And you go to brands and you see what they do well, and then you shamelessly steal as best you can, right? You're like how do we make it our own?

Speaker 1: 1:33

That's called R&D, which is Rob and Duplicate.

Speaker 2: 1:37

Exactly. And I was at a concept there in Salt Lake and they had put up all their one-star Yelp reviews on wallpaper in their bathroom this place is horrible, the food's terrible and I was like, okay, they're accepting the fact that this is what it is. And so I came back to my team and challenged them like what can we do? That reminisces that. So we at Voodoo try a lot of donuts. Not all work. We're kind of famously known for doing a NyQuil donut.

Speaker 2: 2:03

Back in the day we put NyQuil on a donut. We put that Bismalt on a donut, like real NyQuil and Pepto-Bismol. Oh, do you not know this story? So back in the day the founders actually made a NyQuil donut. So they put NyQuil in the frosting and then you would get a shot glass full of NyQuil along with the donut. And they sold it for a day. And the FDA came in and said, hey, just a heads up, that little thing on the side of the bottle is a warning. You cannot put medicine in food. You can't do that. And the founders being marketers they were they went to the local paper and said, hey, the FDA, the man's trying to stop us, right, we're just this little donut shop in Portland and they got a ton of pressure from it.

Speaker 2: 2:47

Just a ton of press and so they need to tap the Bismol Donuts. There's an oyster house right next to our first store. They would run over and get a fresh oyster every time someone ordered an oyster donut. We've done a salmon donut. We've just done it. Most recently we did a sriracha donut. It was maple glazed with sriracha on the top and fresh ground ramen. We put sriracha on it. Historically it was around $4.20.

Speaker 1: 3:10

Surprise, but we do a lot of donuts. I don't get it. Why?

Speaker 2: 3:13

Yeah I know Some work and some don't, but what we did was we ended up making our own wallpaper with all of our donut failures, everything that you would imagine just didn't work. So now in most of our stores there's a wall somewhere with this wallpaper with all these crazy donuts that you're like that can't be a donut. Yeah, we tried those, and so we're sure we have a hack that actually has all the donuts on them. All the different donuts we've done. We put slingin' on a donut, we put salmon on a donut. We've tried everything. You name it. We've tried it.

Speaker 1: 3:45

One, why do you do that? And two, I want to make a point about the failure which I think is amazing. The question is why not right, I think, when you put limitations on yourself? Wait, why not put NyQuil on a donut?

Speaker 2: 3:56

Well, chris, yeah, well listen, I think there are extremes, there are curves and we've jumped a few curves but we're on a palliative ourselves. We don't apologize for much here at Voodoo. We're in the donut business. Let's just be honest. We feed people and we feed them really good donuts and why not have some fun with it? And I think a lot of people have kind of tracked in behind us. Think of some of these ice cream shops that have turkey gravy ice cream and all those things that think about it. 10 years ago you would have been like what Ben and Jerry's kind of started it, but all these unique donut shops or ice cream shops are now doing it. I like to think we're in the forefront of that. Nike will probably be a little bit far, but pushing the envelope a little bit.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Yeah, you got to push the envelope to know when it's going to open.

Speaker 2: 4:39

Yeah, and someone will tell us it's too far, as the FDA did for us, but it's just part of having fun and part of innovation and part of not taking yourself too seriously and really kind of enjoying the journey. It's fun for our team, it's fun for our customers, it gives them something to talk about and, again, if you're not failing, you're not trying, and it's such a powerful tool to encourage your team to fail and you know to fail within boundaries and, in the case of NyQuil, to fail really quickly and then stop it.

Speaker 1: 5:12

But those are things that I think are so powerful when you're able to teach them that, hey, failure is okay. What's not okay is not trying new things.

Speaker 2: 5:23

One of the messages I tell my team every once in a while, I'm not saying what were you thinking? You're not thinking enough, you're just not thinking enough. And so we challenge our store managers, we challenge everybody in the building that if, every once in a while, chris isn't saying what are you thinking, what were you thinking? You're not thinking enough. You're not. We're people serving people, right, we're in the restaurant business and everyone has their own ideas. And again, bring them to life, let them breathe. We have some great donuts that are marketing team and then our HR team, and they come up with really good ideas Like, well, let's try it, let's taste it, let's see what happens. So innovation doesn't just come from one person or from one idea, right, I think in the restaurant business, you have to be willing to listen to everybody, including our customers.

Speaker 1: 6:07

Yeah, there we go. Powerful lesson, so let's talk about those customers. What do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays, chris?

Speaker 2: 6:14

I think that today, in today's world, right, the guest experience is becoming more and more important, right? I mean, we talked about, we went through COVID. I think a lot of people thought, boy, you know, ghost kitchens and walk-up windows and drive-thrus and all those things were going to be. That was going to be our new, the way we're going to live our lives in the restaurant business.

Speaker 1: 6:32

By the way, thank you for not saying the new N. It's like what is like? Oh my gosh, if I hear that word one more time.

Speaker 2: 6:39

Yeah, and I think we all thought that was going to be the world, and I think, with the reality, as we all learned, it's not the end of the world, right, that's not the way it's going. It's back about engagement, and engagement can also happen in a drive-thru, it can happen in a walk-up window, it can happen in a pickup. All that can happen in those experiences as well, and we forgot, I think, at some point in time, that we're still humans and we like the human connection.

Speaker 2: 7:03

We like the human experience. I was just reading an interesting quote that came out of Brett Ecava and he said 64% of his customers want human engagement. They require human engagement. It just came out yesterday and I was like, well, that's really interesting, right, where he's done a study where a big portion of his customers still want the engagement. They don't want to talk to a kiosk, they want to engage. And so for us, I think the important part of Voodoo, especially for us, it's about the experience.

Speaker 2: 7:30

Many times you go to Voodoo and we're long lines. There's no doubt about it. We drive long lines and if you're going to stay in line for 30 minutes, you better get engagement when you walk in the door. And engagement comes from everything from, not just the counter person, right the music, the lighting, everything it feels that's going on inside that store. So for us, it's all about that engagement right now. Right, if you want to take an hour ordering a dozen donuts, take an hour, take an hour, you deserve it. Take as long as you want. We don't have timers, I don't track ticket times.

Speaker 1: 8:03

Oh really.

Speaker 2: 8:04

Yeah, and maybe I should right. Maybe I'm crazy, but remember I came from a world of ticket times Starbucks ticket times, right, mod pizza ticket times. How fast could you move people through and not make it just a transaction? Well, that's a happy balance. Right At Voodoo, I never wanted to be a transaction, I wanted to be as fast or slow as you want it to be, and so that's where I think the new consumer is going and I think we're all starting to recognize that. You know more and more and more. And it's not just about I want to order my phone, I want it really quick. Some customers do, we have to, we have to gap to those customers, but there's a whole part of those customers who still want someone to say hello and goodbye.

Speaker 1: 8:40

I can't agree with you more, chris, and longtime listeners will be able to recite this with me, but I really do believe that there's three cons when it comes to loyalty. There's the convenience, which is gonna get them in, there's the consistency, which is gonna get them back, and there's the connection, which is really gonna keep them for a lifetime. And if you're in that consistency which is, by the way, darn hard to be fully consistent If you're there, you're still replaceable. You're still just one mistake away from getting out of the rotation for a year, but if you have that connection, that mistake is forgiven so much faster because they know that that brand cares about them, and if they know that you care about them, they're going to care so much more about you. If you don't care about them, they'll care a lot less about them, and if they know that you care about them, they're going to care so much more about you If you don't care about them, they'll care a lot less about you.

Speaker 2: 9:32

Yeah, I think the reality of it is we're all not watching our dollars when we spend them, and so that connection becomes even more important now than it ever was. And the best message I've heard is they said I went to, we had a great time. I said what'd you get? And they're like I don't even know the donuts I got. I don't remember, but I remember I had a lot of fun and to me that's a win. Right, that's a win. I mean, everyone can tell me about the great bacon maple bar we made, but tell me about the experience you had. I'm much more excited when you tell me I went, I had a great time.

Speaker 1: 10:02

Think about this right. How many places sell donuts? Can someone go into a Voodoo Donut and make a bootleg copy of your maple bacon bar? Yeah, sure they can. Yes, there's maple bacon bars. The question is, why do people wait when there's 20 donut shops within a 15-minute drive that I can get my donuts? Come back to Voodoo Donuts because convenience is superseded by consistency and connection.

Speaker 2: 10:33

I agree. I mean we're blessed and we have many stores where there's long lines to get in. It'll be 30 minutes, 40 minutes to get in to get a donut. When I first started visiting Voodoo I was with Maude. I was like why am I standing in this line for 30 minutes to get a donut? I'm in the restaurant business. It better be good. And then I went in and again, I think it's all encompassing. It's not only the experience of the person on the counter, but is the music right? Is there something for me to look at? Do I feel it right?

Speaker 2: 10:59

There's an element that I stole from Howard Beard I worked for at Starbucks, where the walls talk. Right. What do the walls tell you when you walk in a place and you go to someone's house and it could be an old friend you walk in. You're like, oh, there's something going on here. I don't know what it is, but there's something going on. Or you walk in someone's home or a car and there's something good going on. You're like, oh man, I feel it. And so we talked a lot about that. Routines is what do the walls tell you when you walk in a store? And then what would consumers say when they walk? Do they feel like good things are happening?

Speaker 1: 11:30

It's just a vibe I think you get and it's hard to do, but when it happens it's just magic. I love that and I think about it too A lot of times if there's places where there's going to be weights. Right, because consumers by the way, just to be very clear, consumers do complain about weight, but a lot less often than you think. If you look at the data of wait times, where the biggest frustration is is with pickup or with delivery. And when they say I waited too long for my food, what their meaning is? I ordered my food. You said it would be to my door in 30 minutes and it didn't get here until 50 minutes. Or you said my order be ready at one o'clock and I showed up at one o'clock and it wasn't ready until 1.15. That 15 minutes of unexpected is so much worse than 30 minutes of waiting in line expecting it.

Speaker 2: 12:28

That's interesting and, as you said, that I'm kind of nodding my head because much worse than 30 minutes of waiting in line expecting it. That's interesting and, as you said, that I'm kind of nodding my head because it's exactly what we find is that exact message, which is you know, we'd all love for people to come in our stores so we can control from start to finish. We all would love that. The reality is, that's not the world we're in. We're just not in that world. All of us, I think cumulatively in the restaurant business, have to accept that. And how do we do a better job of that? And then, how do we recover that guest when things aren't great, right? I mean, I think you guys do a great job of helping companies like ours do that. How do you recover that customer when they're waiting 30 minutes for their donuts and it takes an hour, and now they're angry and they're not sure to be angry.

Speaker 1: 13:10

Exactly? Who takes the blame? The logo on the box of course.

Speaker 2: 13:15

Of course, because I'm a consumer and what happens to me. I feel that same thing and I know how it works. So it's like going to a movie and watching, knowing how the movie the magic of the movie's made and being disappointed like I know all the magic's made. I know what to expect. But you're absolutely right and you know, I think you know organizations like what you're doing today with Ovation are allowing us to be able to capture those customers that have a bad experience and capture them quickly, right Before they can go off and tell you know, the neighbors at the soccer tournament. Hey.

Speaker 1: 13:51

I just ordered from here and it was not very good. Well, because a human who feels like they have not, that they didn't get what they paid for, especially in the current environment people are OK paying more. They're not OK paying more and not getting what they paid for. That's the danger. And so if you can capture that guest and make sure that they feel heard, you can either control that narrative with them and that conversation, or they will go feel heard someplace else. And if they want to feel heard on Yelp, it's their prerogative. If they want to feel heard at a soccer tournament, that's their choice. But if you could get in front of that, you can have a much more productive conversation.

Speaker 2: 14:29

But if you could get in front of that, you could have a much more productive conversation. Absolutely, it's the key. It's the absolute key. And listen, I'd love to be able to capture every customer that has a bad experience and me personally speak to them. It's not the reality of the world we're living in and again, you guys, innovation help us do just that Is how do we know when everyone's had a bad experience and now we can get ahead of it? The how do we know when everyone's had a bad experience and now we can get ahead of it? The customer that I lay awake at night and think about are the ones that don't say anything, just have a bad experience and walk away and don't come back.

Speaker 1: 14:56

And Chris, do you want to know why they don't say anything? You, as a customer, why don't you say things every time? You have a bad experience.

Speaker 2: 15:03

If you ask my wife she'll tell you, because I always have a bad experience, because there's always something I think you're better, right, and she's tired of hearing me complain, but there's not an outlet for it, right, and I think it's just going to fall on deaf ears. I've already spent my time waiting for the product. I've already paid for it. Now you want it to go above and beyond. It has to be convenient for me to do, otherwise I'm not doing it.

Speaker 1: 15:24

And again, that's where every business decision starts with that first con of convenience. It's a transaction. Me giving Voodoo Donuts feedback is a transaction. You are asking me for something and I don't know what I'm going to get for it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, 100%. I know we're coming up on time here, Chris. We didn't even get to talk about some tactics, but I know we got to have you back on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 15:48

You's nice, that's very kind.

Speaker 1: 15:51

And you've got too much good experience to share it all in one podcast, so let's have you back on for part two, chris, all right, you got it, but I do have a couple more questions. Who deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry? Who is someone that we should be following?

Speaker 2: 16:10

Well, listen, I think Shana and Andrew Smith are doing an amazing job with the Savory Group. I mean just an amazing job, right? Every brand's important and every brand feels uniquely different, and that's hard when you have a stable of brands. Yeah, right, because you start to feel the same experience in a stable of brands and not to beat down some of our big boys and co-branding their big boys right, I don't want ice cream and chicken at the same stop. Or taco and chicken. I'm sorry, but just do something well and do it really good. And I think the folks over at Savory and again Andrew and Shauna being the lead of that have done an amazing job with helping bringing brands to life, helping them grow. So they deserve an ovation from my seat. They're just doing an amazing job.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Love it. I grow, so they deserve an ovation from my seat. They're just doing an amazing job. Love it. I was hanging out with Shauna last week. I mean they're such a cool group and I learn from them every time I talk to them. In fact, when I used to have long hair, Andrew actually taught me how to do my hair.

Speaker 2: 17:01

I don't have that problem. But yeah, I don't need to talk to Andrew about that.

Speaker 1: 17:05

But yeah, I know they're doing it. If those that don't know the brands and the saving group is just doing a great job.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Yeah, amen, chris. Where can people go to follow and find Voodoo Donuts and you? Yeah, so VoodooDonutcom on Instagram. We have about 260,000 followers, believe it or not, for a little donut shop out of Portland. Those are the two places they'll find us. And for me, I don't have a big social following. I know everyone tells me I'm crazy, but I, very simply, if I tell everybody I'm just Chris at VoodooDonutcom and people can email me anytime, anywhere, I always respond. But yeah, I don't have a big social following. They tell me I have a facial radio.

Speaker 2: 17:45

So I'm just kind of you know. I think it should fall in line with social media as well oh, and for those who aren't familiar with the brand, voodoo Donuts.

Speaker 1: 17:53

They spell donuts, the original way, which is dog like a real dough.

Speaker 2: 18:00

You have to have dough to make a donut. Yes, you don't need the nuts, you need the dough, yeah, so so, just so everyone's aware of how to do that.

Speaker 1: 18:09

But go check them out. And, chris, for teaching us the magic of Voodoo Donuts. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation. Thanks, zach. Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.