Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today we have Part Deux, which is going to be a lot better than the Joker movie. Erin Levesow almost 20 years in hospitality marketing tech with brands like Caesars, mgm, wingstop, freebirds. She's actually the former VP of tech at Del Taco, cmo of I love this Museum of Ice Cream. Yeah, she was a CMO at other places too, but the Museum of Ice Cream is like the real big one for me. And now she's an advisor board member and podcast host. Hence, if you're listening, you're about to hear the silkiest voice that has been on this podcast, because she's got the mic set up of professionals. What's up, erin?

Speaker 2: 1:02

I don't think it's silky, but thank you and I'm glad to be here for, yeah, our second time around.

Speaker 1: 1:08

I have been trying to get Erin on the podcast for months and she's been that is not true. That is not true. She has been putting me off and I'm so glad that we finally cornered her on a Friday to record this the day before my birthday, and that was her birthday. Present to me is getting on this podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:23

So thank you, erin, happy birthday, happy, happy birthday.

Speaker 1: 1:26

Okay, erin, let's talk about this. You have seen so much in the marketing and the tech space, and let me just start with a question that I love to ask people who have amazing experience like you do, which is what are most people doing wrong?

Speaker 2: 1:44

I mean, they forget about the guest. It always comes back to do you remember who your guest is and where they want to be? And we, in our nature, try and silo guests and say they all want to use an app, or they all want to use the website, or they all want to come in person. They don't. Every guest is a little bit different, and so really putting them front and center is, I think, where website or they all want to come in person, they don't. Every guest is a little bit different, and so really putting them front and center is, I think, where people get it wrong is they forget. I also think they try and they feel they need a company for everything. Right, and you don't need 75 tech companies to run your brand. Go back to what is core to it, what's important, and then focus there.

Speaker 1: 2:26

How would you go about? And, by the way, I love that idea of not all consumers want to be treated the same. And I would add, and here's another layer of fun not all consumers want to be treated the same every time. So it's like I want to go into a restaurant, I want to order DoorDash, but yet I'm expecting the same amount of care from you as a brand, and it's up to you to meet me where I'm at, when I'm there.

Speaker 2: 2:51

And not just care, but like consistency.

Speaker 1: 2:53

Yes.

Speaker 2: 2:54

Do you know why my daughter flipping loves to go to Olive Garden and I'm like, fine, I do want the tour of Italy. It's great, but it's because it's consistent. You know exactly what you're going to get. You know exactly what the food's going to come out. You know the salad's going to come out. You know the breadsticks are going to come out. No matter how I order it, you know what you're getting and there's a lot of consistency in what we need. Our lives are crazy. Let's give people consistency.

Speaker 1: 3:22

I love that. And consistency I mean when I talk about the three C's of guest experience. It's convenience, consistency and connection right. And I think tech a lot of times can help us, especially with the consistency to measure things. But when I always say you can't take the humans out of hospitality, it's because when it gets to that connection point, aaron, you need that human touch, right yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:47

Well, I mean, the human experience is so important, and so I say what we get to do in technology is emotional connection and it's emotional technology because there's still this heart. I have a heart, you have a heart. Let's connect those. But what connects those is technology. And when you find someone who leads marketing technology, who understands the emotion and the psychology behind it and they also understand the technology behind it, that's a winner. Those are some of the best folks I've ever worked with, are people that understand the psychology. Right, it's your typical traditional marketers who understand the creative and the feelings that get evoked. And then you marry that with technology and that's what wins. But it's still human connection, it's just helping. And again, it gets said all over and over and over but right person, right time, right place, it's really that Technology helps you get there. It's the emotion that evokes is what connects with the human.

Speaker 1: 4:46

But Erin, that doesn't scale. I have a lot of restaurants, I have a lot of customers coming in. I can't connect with all of them. It doesn't scale.

Speaker 2: 4:58

It does scale. We went from being the wing experts and everybody was like, well, you're the wing experts. And I was like, but that doesn't connect with our people. Right To get at it, get at it as a way of life. That became their slogan. I'm not sure if it's still their slogan, but like it was this idea of how you attack life and that connected and resonated and it did scale. When you find something that the psychology puts in place, that is about the demographic, that is about the customer, it will scale. But it's finding the right thing, because wing experts didn't, it wasn't the right thing. Get at it how you get after life, whether it's you're riding a bike or you're attacking wings, because you don't eat wings they're not a simple food to eat. You get messy. How you get after life. That was exciting for Wingstop and it definitely resonated and scaled.

Speaker 1: 5:53

I love that I right now am wearing a $45 Bucky sweatshirt that I got? Yes, I love Bucky's and who doesn't? I actually have two Bucky-ee's shirts, but whenever I wear a Buc-ee shirt, people smile. When they see my shirt, To see a little beaver chipmunk. I don't even know what it is. Actually it's enjoyable.

Speaker 2: 6:14

And do you need gas? Do you need to do your Christmas shopping? Do you just need popcorn? They have it all.

Speaker 1: 6:25

And maybe I want to buy a grill. I don't know Right, it's like they've got it all. But here's the crazy thing, erin, I walked into a Buc-ee's last weekend, 2 am in South Carolina, and the doors open. I walk in, 2 am and what do I hear? I hear from four people Welcome to Buc-ee's.

Speaker 2: 6:43

They pay well too. They pay their employees well there.

Speaker 1: 6:47

And instantly. So when we talk about how connection can't scale, that is so ingrained. When was the last time I was greeted walking into a gas station? I know, I know, and so I bring that up just as an example of hospitality doesn't care about your industry. Hospitality cares about the guests feeling cared about. That's what hospitality is.

Speaker 2: 7:10

And Buc-ee's has scaled. Just to be clear, they have scaled, they've continued to grow, they've been calculated with their growth, so they're not just growing to grow and they've done that on purpose, right? They give you an experience, exactly.

Speaker 1: 7:23

And there's some technology there, yes, but it's the heart of the people. They hire the right people, they retain the right people and they make sure that even at 2 am, that those people are friendly and helpful, which is crazy.

Speaker 2: 7:39

You don't even know what to do. You're probably shocked. That's why you remember it, because you were like who's ever greeted me at 2 am and at the fudge counter at 2 am.

Speaker 1: 7:49

obviously I had to go walking all around the store asking hey, is there anyone working the fudge counter? No, I didn't. You know what happened. There were two people at the fudge counter. That's insane, two of them and they both said would you like a sample?

Speaker 2: 8:03

You're like absolutely I do it's 2 am.

Speaker 1: 8:06

There are four people behind the beef jerky counter.

Speaker 2: 8:10

That's crazy. Yeah, they have a wonderful establishment.

Speaker 1: 8:14

They do. It creates raving fans who get on podcasts and talk about it. So, talking about the guest, I love that your focus on technology and marketing is really getting focused on the guest. What do you think is one of the most important aspects of guest experience nowadays?

Speaker 2: 8:30

Again it goes back to don't forget about the guest, actually the human connection. I said to someone this morning. I said, oh, how's so-and-so doing? And he goes who's so-and-so? And I said, you know so-and-so? And I regurgitated that gentleman's life story and he goes oh, you mean this person? And I said, oh well, I got his name wrong. But I remembered the whole life story and it's because it really has to do with the human. How do you connect with that human? And I think, as people, we want that right. I want nothing more than for someone to look at me and go I see you. I want that from a company too. It turns out right.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Yeah, it's like unreasonable hospitality which is all about love, right, and I think that that's the whole gist of it. And I just went to a conference it was two days of, I mean, a thousand tactics of how to improve the restaurant and it was amazing. And then I got up there and for my keynote I talked about the human connection and these are all amazing things and please do all of these and take notes and bring them back to your restaurant. But we need to remember why. Why are we in this industry that has got tough margins, it's got tough employment, it goes up and down with the economy, it's very volatile, because we care. That's what I feel like is so easy to forget. So what would you do? You go into a restaurant brand and you're sitting down with a C-suite and they say, aaron, what do we do? We want to connect more with our guests. What are some tactics that you would give them?

Speaker 2: 10:06

Well, I want to just jump right into that. I would ask them who is your guest? I've walked into restaurant companies when they're like we need an app and I was like, okay, why, why do we need an app? Why do we need this? What do we know currently about our customer? What don't we know? And then I would move into tactics and sometimes it's as easy as like, hey, you're just not talking to them, you're just not talking to them in the right way.

Speaker 2: 10:30

Again, at Wingstop, we had to change how we talk to our customer, the language that our customer was using and the language we were using. It was like your father talking to your kid and we didn't want to be that person. We wanted to be your friend. Well, you talk to your friend a different way than a father talking to a kid. No-transcript, she reads it. Talk to them where they're at. It's that simple. And again, I know I'm simplifying marketing in general, but the idea of who are you trying to speak to, how are you trying to speak to them and then, where are you trying to speak to them, is really the core of marketing. Where are you trying to speak to them is really the core of marketing.

Speaker 1: 11:28

For a brand who might not have a whole marketing team? How do I go about discovering who are my customers?

Speaker 2: 11:36

It could be as simple as looking at Google Analytics who's coming to your website and it will show you the demo. It will literally tell you how old they are, what they look like, what they're doing, where else they've been. Start there, right, and that's basic information. But then literally sit in your store. Marketers, go inside.

Speaker 2: 11:55

I remember at Freebirds I had to work. Everybody has to work in the restaurant. I worked in the restaurant. I'm rolling burritos and I was not good at it. I was very, very horrible at it. But I got to see everybody that was coming through and as I'm rolling this burrito, this woman looks at me and she's watching me and I'm trying I was struggling to get it to fold and she goes are you an idiot? And I said I don't. I might be I'm actually an incredible marketer but I might not be a good burrito roller we can all agree on that. But I did get to see exactly who came into the restaurants and what they looked like and how they spoke and what was engaging to them and what they wore, and there's nothing better than actually just observing people.

Speaker 1: 12:40

Isn't that kind of weird though.

Speaker 2: 12:43

I don't think so. I mean it's free. It turns out it's very free for me to stand in a restaurant. I don't know, I probably lost them some money when I was working in there, but, like you, could watch all of these folks come through and I could go. All right, I understand who's coming in at lunch. I understand who's coming in at dinner. All right, where do you think they play? Let's go target them there.

Speaker 1: 13:04

I love that I was being a bit facetious before, because I did the same thing with Ovation. I remember in the beginning of Ovation I would sit there and just watch people engage with QR codes. I would see them. What did they talk about as they picked it up? How did they use at the back?

Speaker 2: 13:20

of the day and that probably changed for you, right? It changed pre-COVID, post-COVID, how people interacted with QR codes. It was night and day, I feel like, on how they interact now than what they did Because before they were like oh, qr codes, do you have an app for that?

Speaker 1: 13:36

And so which is why pre-COVID, we had iPad kiosks with smiley faces on them, and then post-COVID, everyone kind of got on board with the QR code and so didn't need that. But there were so many things I learned by watching people use our technology, so I think not only restaurateurs, but any tech person listening go watch people use your technology.

Speaker 2: 13:58

You just hit it on the head. Tech people typically do not watch. They do not. So when your technology department and your marketing department actually can come together is when you win. And there's still so many segmented and separated tech and marketing departments in marketing or, well, in restaurants. And when they can come together and go, hey, we care about the emotion, because marketers typically are like I can tell you all about the customer and technologists go, I can tell you about the technology. When you get them to work hand in hand, it's a win. So go in and watch. Bring your IT friend with you.

Speaker 1: 14:36

I love that. I grew up in the advertising space and we would go and do not just surveys, not just focus groups, but ethnographies and an ethnography is when you follow someone around, not just to what they're doing. So I remember I was working for a project on a book company and they have a bunch of bookstores around the country and I followed one of their consumers around. I went with her, got to her house in the morning and she was making breakfast for the kids and getting them out the door for school. We sat down and we chatted for a while as she was doing laundry and then she went shopping and went to the bookstore. We followed her around and then we went to lunch with her. So we were together for probably five hours and the whole time just recording the whole thing, Just understanding who she was and why she made the decision she did.

Speaker 1: 15:25

Exactly and how did the bookstore fit into her life and the things that were around her house from the bookstore and how she wanted to feel in the bookstore. And as a result of this quote unquote marketing experience, the recommendation was in the bookstores they should lower their shelves, because she wanted to feel more like a home and she wanted to feel less like a library. So they lowered the bookshelves to give people you know so they can see what's going on in other places and not feel like they were trapped inside these aisles. So it reduced the skews, but it improved the guest experience.

Speaker 2: 16:02

Well, and you just again hit something on the head, which is we are not the most important part of someone's day. We'd like to believe we are, isn't that crazy?

Speaker 1: 16:11

Isn't everyone thinking about Wingstop? All day, every day, all day.

Speaker 2: 16:19

Exactly Like any restaurant they'll be like oh well, obviously they want to come to us. I was like they might've made that decision two minutes ago. Right, they literally might've been driving by. But like figure out what piece of that puzzle. And like you followed her around and you figured out where that fit into her life and I don't think we do that enough.

Speaker 1: 16:34

Yeah, love that, erin. You and I could chat all day and we do when we're at trade shows, which is always fun. You are one of the shining lights. It's so fun to see you at trade shows. If you're at a trade show and you see Erin, be prepared to feel the love because she has such a dynamic energy about her. You're awesome, erin. You do so much great stuff for this industry and I'm grateful that you came on the podcast. But before we leave, I want to hear who is someone that you think deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry. Who's someone that we should be following?

Speaker 2: 17:05

I mean there's lots of people, but I would say I actually just spoke to her this morning, jennifer Loper from C3. She is also someone who I believe that you can't have without darkness and no matter what, she brings the light and she is a beautiful shining star of that and I've known her for a while now and every time she shows up in a room she brings light with her and I like to put myself next to people who, I feel, brighten my day too.

Speaker 1: 17:37

I love that. Well, Erin, where can people go?

Speaker 2: 17:40

to follow you Anywhere. If you want to see myself and my daughter doing TikTok dances, you can find us on TikTok. If you Snapchat and my daughter doing TikTok dances, you can find us on TikTok If you Snapchat anything. Linkedin there's really no platform that I'm not on.

Speaker 1: 17:52

And she's got over 16,000 followers on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2: 17:58

Yeah, it's a lot. I don't remember your name, but I remember your whole life story, that's for sure. I love that and thank you for remembering me.

Speaker 1: 18:06

Absolutely, erin Well, for grounding us in the guests and for helping me pick my birthday dinner this weekend, olive Garden. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Given Ovation. Thank you, thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.