Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives you all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today we have an incredible leader, someone who has been really has become a mentor of mine since we met Doug Wilmarth. He's not only the president of Muya Burgers, fries and Shakes, but he's a former chief brand officer at Mongolian Concepts CMO, wingstop, director of brand and marketing at Pizza Hut, just to name a few of the things he's done in this industry. He also little known fact was a mission commander and helicopter pilot for the US Navy.

Speaker 2: 0:53

Doug, welcome to the show man hey, thanks. I love the enthusiasm and the welcome. You know not often I get this sort of welcome into a podcast. Thank you for that. I feel special.

Speaker 1: 1:01

Well, you are special, doug. I've been looking forward this podcast and I know our listeners don't know this, but we started our conversation 37 minutes ago and we just hit record because Doug is such a wealth of knowledge and I love chatting with him and every time I talk to Doug I walk away a better person and I know that you will too for listening to this podcast. But, doug, let's just talk about continuing the conversation around hospitality and the most important aspect of guest experience. Right before this, we were kind of talking about a vending machine restaurant and I actually had an experience one time.

Speaker 1: 1:37

I ordered at a restaurant from a kiosk. I got a text message saying that my order was ready. I typed in the code, booth popped open, I grabbed my food and it was horrible. And guess what? I had no way to tell them. I had no one to talk to because the entire restaurant was just a wall of cubbies with a couple of kiosks. And that may work well if I'm paying a third of the amount for a dry sandwich. But if you're going to a restaurant, talk to me about what do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience?

Speaker 2: 2:13

Yeah, so we were just talking about hospitality and I think we started down this rabbit hole because you have Will Gadara's book behind you and we were talking about how do you apply this idea of unexpected hospitality as a way of connecting with people, no matter how your business is, whether you're a Michelin star restaurant or you're somebody like us that's serving burgers, fries and shakes to folks in regular neighborhoods and I think the important part of that is the restaurant business is a business that's a people business, and one of the things that I love most about our business in general is that we're part of people's lives, and for thousands of years, people have been getting together at a table and breaking bread is a way to build relationships, to celebrate important milestones in their life, and as the restaurant business, we have a front row seat to that. We're part of that, we're invited into that, and so when people show up at a restaurant, there's a personal interaction there, and when we're doing it at our best, we're welcoming people in, like we're welcoming them into our home and we're treating them well. If people feel seen and they feel like you understand me and you're serving me, then there's a sense of loyalty and satisfaction that comes with that and you know there's that relationship. We're also going to be a little bit more forgiving. When I forget the queso, right, you're going to come up to me and we handle that conversation well.

Speaker 2: 3:34

It builds relationship, it doesn't hurt relationship, and so hospitality, for me, is part of the glue, that is the most important part of our industry. So we get to a point where, in pursuit of efficiency and reducing labor, we have everybody order through a kiosk and their food's delivered by a robot or a drone. I think we've lost something. I think as an industry we're poorer for it, and I think there's still going to be room for people through great customer service, through providing a great experience, that they're going to continue to thrive, and that's where the space where we want to be in.

Speaker 1: 4:08

I love that and it's so powerful to think about that human connection and that was one of the things that, when Will came on this podcast, we talked about the difference between service and hospitality.

Speaker 1: 4:19

Right, service is giving them the right food at the right time and the right temperature. Hospitality is how they feel about it and I think that that's a big difference and we actually chatted about also before it didn't record a great franchisee in Provo, utah, and I went to that restaurant and he wasn't going around being like, hey, I'm the owner here, how was everything? He was just going around talking to people and guess what happened is we ended up having a great conversation. He didn't know who we were. I assumed, once you've been in this business for a while, like you know, doug, you could walk into any restaurant and there's a different walk about the person who owns the place. You know what I mean? Right, they got their head on a swivel and things like that and we had a great conversation, but you could tell he was someone who cared and he wasn't just serving burgers, fries and shakes, he was serving hospitality and it really made a difference.

Speaker 2: 5:16

Yeah, and there's presence in the sense of I see you and I care about you. I care about the experience you got. And just to share a little bit about that, that restaurant, when they took it over it was struggling and this is not an exaggeration. In 16 months they've doubled the sales to that restaurant and because they've not only improved all the things food quality, cleanliness, speed but they're present, and so we were talking about they're building locations two and three in the next six months, and one of the concerns that they have is how do we have the same level of engagement and impact with our customers when we're sped across three restaurants versus being able to just be in the one, and part of what they were excited about was the ability of the Ovation platform for them to continue to stay connected.

Speaker 1: 6:02

Yeah, and they just bleed hospitality, which I think is it really makes a difference. And look, I remember the previous franchisee great guy. It was kind of like his side thing. He had other things going on and he was busy and he liked driving tractors and he's an S&G owner, right.

Speaker 2: 6:20

And so when that gets passed through and you don't have it, you know you and I talked about the sense of confidence, right, or the sense of care that you know when you walk in, that you're talking to an owner. A good GM has that, right. If you've empowered them and they feel like you know what I'm empowered to solve problems here, this is my restaurant and I'm owning it Then a good GM will have that. You and I talked about the shadow of a leader, right? People imitate what they see. So if you, as a leader, are treating them in that way and you're providing and empowering them to act as an owner, then it's much easier for them to step up and do that right, and that's a way of replicating yourself and really you go from a position of I have to be there to I've now duplicated myself in 30, 40 restaurants and now there's a culture that is going to grow throughout the company and that's a really important part of this.

Speaker 1: 7:13

And you're someone who, I think, does a great job of exemplifying that, because when I see Mouya's at trade shows, I see Doug in the booth, and that's something where it does make a difference. You go around and talk to all the franchisees, like you're talking about. You visit every franchisee in their restaurant every year. You are at the booth meeting people. You really have that lead from the side mentality, and I think that that needs to permeate all of our organizations, whether or not we're running a great brand like Muya or whether or not we are the GM of a shift. It's how are we making them feel? And less about how is someone else making me feel as a leader, but how do I make other people feel as a leader? And I think that's really important, because we can't all be waiting for the person above us to be doing a better job. Let's start with us, right?

Speaker 2: 8:07

Well, that is the idea of. Is the organizational pyramid kind of the wrong construct? Right? The pyramid should be upside down.

Speaker 2: 8:15

So it's my job to empower my team to take care of our franchisees and we talk about this all the time that, as a franchisor, I'm in the business of empowering entrepreneurs right, and we give them a platform, and we do that through serving the best burgers, fries and shakes in America. But we're really empowering our franchisees. We're helping them with a brand, with standards of operation, so they can go out and really they're the face of the brand, because they interact with the customer every day, and so our job is not to tell them what to do. It's empower them in the right ways, and my job is to make sure everybody above me has the resources they need and the right guidance and focus. So, in a very real sense, the pyramid really is inverted and you need to think about it.

Speaker 2: 9:04

That way is, when I walk in the door, my orientation is how can I help you? And I'm sitting across from a franchisee and our conversation is how are things going? What could we be doing better? How can I help you today? And what are we doing right? What do we need to improve on, because that's what my organization needs to be thinking about Now. If I'm up front and I'm traveling the system and I'm having that conversation, my team knows that I'm having that conversation because they hear about every conversation.

Speaker 2: 9:25

They might get pictures, they might get comments. A lot of times they're compliments, sometimes they're hey guys, we're letting somebody down, we need to do better. But when you see me doing that, then that permeates the attitude of the rest of it, right? If I'm just sitting in headquarters and sending somebody else out, well, that sends a message too. Like if we don't care about you and you know I'm talking to that franchisee in Utah. He played it back is that we just appreciate the trips. You come out, you're here, you're in the trenches with us and we know that we're not just a number, that you really care about that. And they were franchisees of another brand and they said look, that never happened there. We just thought I could number. All they want to do is they want to just collect royalties and sit back, and they never really cared how we were done. So I think that there is a sense of as a leader, you set the tone in your organization, whether that's in a restaurant or that's as a leader of a franchise group.

Speaker 1: 10:15

Yeah, I love that. And so, getting into some tactics here, what are some things that you've done to help improve the guest experience? And, by the way, for those who have a good ear, you'll hear that the very first thing that we're talking about here is visit and build relationships with your franchisees. If you want to improve the guest experience, make sure your franchisees know that you care about them. But besides that, doug, what are some other things you've done to improve the guest experience? Make sure your franchisees know that you care about them. But besides that Doug, what are some other things you've done to improve the guest experience?

Speaker 2: 10:42

Yeah, and I think to your point whether it's your franchisor, and so you know we are primarily a franchisor. But the same thing applies to this company restaurants right? How is leadership getting out and how are you making the divisions or the TMs feel empowered, right? That same translates, and people are going to give great service because you've taken care of it. So the culture of the organization will expand and filter into how everybody treats the guests that walk into their restaurant, all the way down to the team member, and so that means that we need to have GMs that feel empowered to do that. And so it starts at the top, from just setting the expectation and being servants down and really caring about people. That will then trickle down if we do it right, so that we hire the right people, we train them, and it's the culture of our organization to serve people.

Speaker 2: 11:32

I think an organization that for many, many years has exemplified this is Chick-fil-A. I had two sons come through the Chick-fil-A. I had two sons come through the Chick-fil-A organization. You know I can't say enough having young boys in high school go through their program. That helped mature them. They really felt valued in that organization and because of the way the organization is run top down. Those guys were fantastic workers. It was a culture not only in the company but in their restaurant, and they would hold each other accountable. It was really wonderful to see how great leadership and service orientation flows all the way through, so to your point.

Speaker 1: 12:09

It starts from the top and it starts with your orientation and caring about people and people who are care for people and as we talk about often on this show is it is very hard for the guest experience to exceed the employee experience. And talking about Chick-fil-A, I remember I met this very lovely woman down South and she was like my kids will do two things they're going to go to church and they're going to work at Chick-fil-A. And I thought, oh, that's, that's really good, I like that.

Speaker 2: 12:43

So just an example of the power of culture, right, my oldest son went to work for Chick-fil-A. Right, I have three boys and the middle son also wanted to work for Chick-fil-A. He's like, hey, you know, recommend me, get me in there, and to his credit, right.

Speaker 2: 13:03

And so he wouldn't recommend. And so it was the oldest and the youngest that ended up working for Chick-fil-A and neither would recommend their middle brother. So, like you're talking about a screen, it's like, yeah, I know this kid, he doesn't have the same customer service, he's not going to be delivering great customer service like we are. And they were spot on Right. And the middle some would tell you you know, yeah, he hates restaurants, he doesn't want to do that. So they knew it well enough. So they self-selected even their own brother out of being a team member. And so just think about the power of that, the recruiting. Like you don't need to recruit if you're in an organization like that, because your team members are going to find the right people for you.

Speaker 2: 13:48

That is too funny and I'm sure that your middle has gone on to do incredible things, even without the Chick-fil-A experience. I hope he doesn't watch this podcast.

Speaker 1: 13:53

Love you, scott. Love it Well, doug. Who is someone? Obviously you've had such a great career and we had talked about a lot of people that have been in both of our lives but who's someone that deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry? Who's someone that we should be following.

Speaker 2: 14:08

Yeah, and you and I just talked about it and this is probably too obvious an answer.

Speaker 2: 14:12

We were talking, before the tape turned on, about the news on Brian Nickell going to Starbucks, and I had the privilege to work directly for Brian for a couple of years at Pizza Hut and seeing firsthand not only what a great strategic leader is, but what a great people leader is and the importance of culture, and it feels like at this moment, starbucks is the focus of a lot of attention and angst around the world and the stabilizing influence of a great leader that just cares about people and cares about culture culture.

Speaker 2: 14:43

It's going to be really interesting to see how he approaches that challenge, because everywhere he's been, he's had that kind of impact and you just have to look at what happened in the years that he was at Chipotle and what he was able to do in terms of really focusing the organization, getting a great organization back in tune with what made them great and just staying focused, getting the right people in and staying focused on holding themselves accountable for what they needed to do, and it's a very, very simple thing and very hard to do, and Brian has done it at a very high level.

Speaker 2: 15:14

So I would be really interested to see how does he approach that task at Starbucks, because it is a really, really difficult chair.

Speaker 1: 15:21

Yeah, and, based on your recommendation, I'm currently halfway through the book Onward by Howard Schultz, and so it's just really interesting to see how that all plays out, and fascinating to see how a great brand is built and starts to hurt and then comes back, and anyway it's going to be exciting to see. So looking forward to that, hopefully people's drink sizes don't vary too much, but sorry, too soon.

Speaker 2: 15:52

Too soon, Too soon, Too soon. Hopefully people's drink sizes don't vary too much, but yeah, I mean just to have on the dad. It's not like Howard Schultz was great, but you see great organizations and just getting in under the hood and how those were created and so many of them really are great cultural organizations right that, somebody has built a great culture that's become a great business. And we talked about Chick-fil-A in that way, Starbucks in that way very revolutionary on how they treated team members and how they treated guests. At the time I remember 20 years ago, we were all talking about the impact of a barista. When you walked in back from the old school days and you parked your car and you walked in, they're like, hey, Zach, here's your drink, Because they knew you and they knew what you were going to order. Right, and there was that relationship. And the challenge for us is now, in a digital age, how do we replicate that right?

Speaker 2: 16:38

And is it authentic when the app knows, hey, thanks for that right. But really some extraordinary things, and they bucked the system at that time, and so many of the great restaurants chains that we admire did that, and so I think it's really interesting to watch the people that are up and coming now. They're starting new things, really disrupting the industry by doing something powerful, powered by culture. Who is going to be the next Chipotle, the next Starbucks, the next In-N-Out Burger? There are some people out there. That's what's so great about our business.

Speaker 1: 17:17

That's incredible and such great people that we have the opportunity to learn from, including yourself. So, doug, where can people go to follow you and Muya?

Speaker 2: 17:26

Yeah, please just go to a restaurant and order a burger the best thing you could do for us but obviously we're online like everybody else. We're making kind of a new push into TikTok, not necessarily with us being the creator, but by empowering creators.

Speaker 1: 17:41

So yeah, User-generated content. That's what it's all about. I was going to say I was looking forward to seeing you dancing on a on like a naval ship or something, but no, you won't see that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:51

No, I'm not going to be doing that.

Speaker 2: 17:53

I tried to pitch all the things like hey, you know I'm an Ironman athlete, maybe we could promote that, but nobody is going for that.

Speaker 2: 17:59

So the real answer, I think right now is authenticity is more important than ever, and so you don't care what I say about myself, you care what other people say about us.

Speaker 2: 18:09

So one of the things that I'm most proud of in our organization is, you know and there's a testament to not only the quality of the product and the platform, but really the execution of our franchisees but we continue to win the awards, wherever we are, for the best burger in our city. So, you know, we're a couple of time winner here in DFW, but across the country, when readers vote about hey, who's got the best burger in our city, the answer is almost always Muyao over there, and I think that's a better testimonial. And people on social media, whether it's on Instagram or old school Facebook or on TikTok, and they're trying the product and they're eating the product and they're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And even they don't really understand the why it's amazing the quality of the ingredients, the handcrafted process, but just the recognition of. You know we hear this all over. The place is like that's the best burger I've ever had and that's the authentic way that I think we're going to grow the business.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Not because I'm telling you that we have the best burger, it's because you've heard it from other people and all you got to do is try it, because it is a great, great burger. Well, doug, thanks so much for hanging out with me this morning had a lot of fun and for reminding us to help people feel seen and going. Ooh yeah for mooyah. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation.

Speaker 2: 19:25

Thanks, zach, always a pleasure.

Speaker 1: 19:28

Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.