Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests. With all the questions. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today I am so excited, someone that I recently had dinner with and just such an impressive guy. He's the director of culinary operations for Carmine's and Virgil's, where he's been for over 21 years. He is the brains behind the barbecue, the master of the pasta Chef, glenn Rolnick. How are you, chef?

Speaker 2: 0:46

All right, darren, I like that. That was a good introduction. Thank you very much. I enjoyed that I'm doing well. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Yeah, I put some time into your intro.

Speaker 2: 0:55

I like the master behind the pasta.

Speaker 1: 0:59

Anyway, this isn't about patting my back, but it's about patting yours. But, Glenn, so you have. For those who aren't aware, can you just kind of give a quick overview of these two incredible brands, Carmines and Virgil's?

Speaker 2: 1:14

Yes, Carmines is going on 34 years it's been in business. It started on the Upper West Side. That was in 1990. Side that was in 1990. So we opened there in 1990 and then opened up Virgil's and Carmine's in Times Square in a similar time. So Carmine's Times Square was our second location. As you probably know, it's one of the busiest restaurants in the country, if not the busiest restaurant in the country. And then Virgil's came right after that. So Virgil's is a concept that the owner, Artie Cutler, designed and basically there were not many barbecues in New York City at all at the time. So he came up with the name Virgil's because he was very big into horse racing and Virgil was the one who took care of his. You know the horses. And Carmine was named after Carmine Abatello, so the jockey, the famous horse jockey. So when I first started about 21 years ago, we had only those three restaurants at the time and then we opened up Carmine's Atlantic City right after that in the Tropicana Hotel. So Carmine's Atlantic City is going on probably about 18 years right now. So that's been around and that's, thank goodness, is going really well. Summertime is really slamming for us.

Speaker 2: 2:31

After that, we own the Bahamas. We opened the Bahamas right after that. So we're in the Atlantis in the Bahamas that one we don't actually own. That is a concept that we just oversee, we run. It's a licensing agreement that we have with them. So we actually go down, we consult, we check on the food, make sure they're getting the right product. So I go down or one of my right-hand chefs go down and we just check on everything. We check to make sure the quality of the food is good. If they need anything, if they want to change items on the menu, get better product, we're always doing tasting and testing down there so that restaurant runs really well and that is a very easy concept.

Speaker 2: 3:07

Go ahead and I have shared that if you need any assistance with tasting or any support down there, I am here for you, glenn all right, I'm probably going in november, so if you're ready to come with me, uh, we'll hook it up and we'll go down there in november dude, I I mean like, because honestly, like the, the brands and and you guys have opened up now how many total car mines uh, we have six car mines and two virgils and both of these brands.

Speaker 1: 3:37

Here's the thing like, especially when being from jersey right, and like going to new york city all the time to eat, you don't necessarily think right away of going to Carmine's Cause. You're like it's in time square, Like how, how good, how good can it be? It's a tourist trap, Right. And my first time going there I was blown away. I mean, like the food that you all kick out is phenomenal. I mean just absolute killer food and great experience, great service. Like it is such a well-oiled machine and is the I don't know if well, I'm not going to ask on revenue numbers, but I'm sure it's phenomenal, because every time I go in there it is packed to the gills.

Speaker 2: 4:24

It sure is, it sure is, it sure is.

Speaker 1: 4:28

There's no $5 value meal there.

Speaker 2: 4:30

No, no, it's all family style Italian. It was basically started because of the Italian family dinners where you had three or four different levels of your family there, so you'd have 15 to 20 people and everybody would get like monster plates in front of them and just share it, pass it around. Everybody gets a little taste of four or five different things, and that's how it is. I grew up like that. We have an Italian side of the family that every Sunday we were there, we were eating big meals, big plates, and when Artie Cutler developed this thing, it was basically around that concept and there was nothing like it before. There were no other restaurants like that in New York City and the Upper West Side is the original one on 90th and Broadway and that was a monster attraction. And then when the opportunity came in Times Square, times Square was just renovating itself at that time- what year was?

Speaker 2: 5:23

that that was 93, that Carmine opened in Times Square 90 on Upper West Side in 93. So he had that opportunity and he took it and he ran with it.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Go ahead. And for those who aren't familiar with New York, I mean, like the late 80s, early 90s, times Square was not like a place that you went to go hang out with friends, and so in the early 90s they really tried to level up Times Square and turn it into a great attraction and really cleaned up the streets, and so Carmine's obviously was a big part of that.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Absolutely Perfect timing. Artie was a visionary and he actually saw that opportunity. He took it. And again, times Square is theater district.

Speaker 2: 6:09

It's a lot of people who come from outside, but there's also a lot of people who come from local. You know, who come from Jersey. Who come from it's not just coming to, you know, from another country or another city, a lot of it is internal. It's a lot of people from Jersey, like you said, a lot of people from Long Island. So there's convenience in parking now and it's an easy in.

Speaker 2: 6:31

There's a lot of restaurants to choose from, but Carmine's hits its spot, you know. And then Virgil's came a couple of years after that because there was another opportunity for another style of cooking there. So, you know, when Artie saw that, he's like I got to open a barbecue here there are no barbecues and it rocked right off the bat. It was rocking, you know, and thank goodness we're still killing it. We're getting great products in where. You know, we've changed the menu recently and added a couple of things that have really taken us to another level, but we love the brand. I love being in Times Square. Our office is only a few blocks away from here, so we, you know, we're always in in the Times Square area, always rocking it, and I have a lot of fun here.

Speaker 1: 7:13

And Glenn, it's amazing being there for 21 years and you're still doing things like new tastings, changing the menu, things like that. And when we sat down to eat at Virgil's a few weeks back, one of the things we talked about was the guest experience and how all of this is focused on the guest experience and you're constantly looking for this continuous improvement with the guest experience. So what would you say is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays?

Speaker 2: 7:44

To me, the most important is listen to the guest, listen what they're looking for. So you always have your items on the menu and then specials. You'll run specials and hear back from the servers, hear back from the bartenders what are the customers looking for, what are they asking for? So you're always trying to up yourself and up your game and it's like, all right, let's try this specials. And then, when it's something that runs really well and you get a lot of great feedback, okay, let's try and put it on the menu next time we print the menu. So you have to listen to people. You have to understand that we are trying to bring in more guests and we're trying to have them leave as happy as possible and as satiated and satisfied as possible. So you listen to their needs, listen to their wants. So you're always asking the servers and the bartenders so what did you hear? What are they talking about? We put this on the menu. Did they like it? That's our special today. How's the feedback on that?

Speaker 2: 8:39

And that's how you start creating things and you want to be a buzz. You just don't want to be average. You want to be better than that, right? I smile when people are like that food was fantastic. That was smoked ribs I never had better ribs, you know and Carmine same thing. It's like you still kick it every single time. Every time I come, you're getting the same quality, same brand, same satiation that I'm loving it. I had the greatest meal and I'm leaving here and can't wait to come back.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Well, and you're certainly not leaving hungry right, for sure, for sure, because portions are amazing.

Speaker 2: 9:18

Very value-driven for sure. For sure, Because portions are amazing. Very value-driven, for sure.

Speaker 1: 9:20

Yeah, Now who is someone who deserves a Well? I guess, as we're thinking, let's hang more into the guest real quick. What's a tactic that you've used to improve the guest experience?

Speaker 2: 9:39

I personally go out because I don't actually have to sit behind an oven, cook or, you know, in front of a range. So I will go out, I will talk to guests, I will go to the server and say how was their experience. I'll go to the table. I love going when there's kids around. We're very, you know, well adapted to to kids, to adults, to the elderly, to young people. So I go out there and say how was everything? How'd you enjoy? You know, tell me about your experience.

Speaker 2: 9:59

And we asked the managers to do the same. We call it table touches. We want table touches because their feedback is how we grow, it's how we learn, it's how we change things for the better. So there's one office, somebody who'll say oh, I like my sauce sticker, I like my sauce thinner. So you're sitting there listening to what people are saying and you take that and you use it. If 20 people in one day, we could serve 3000 people at Carmine's in one day and maybe 1500 at Virgil's.

Speaker 2: 10:28

And we, if one person says something, we listen, but we say, okay, that was just a one-off that day, you know. Or that's one person giving us an opinion and we always listen to opinions because that's what helps us. Then we listen to someone who says 10 different you know. Or 10 different people say the same thing, like you know what I don't like? That I like a creamier sauce. Or I like my tomato sauce, marinara sauce, more chunky. We listen to that and we try to figure out all right, we're getting a lot of these lately. Are we doing something wrong or do we need to change it? So you're always constantly tasting and trying a lot of different products. There's new tomatoes coming out, there's different chicken, you know, before it was always these random breasts and then all of a sudden it's like they became tough and chewy. So we said, okay, we got to go with this.

Speaker 1: 11:15

That woody chicken breast man, I hate that stuff. So we said, oh, we got to go with this Woody chicken breast man.

Speaker 2: 11:19

I hate that stuff and it was crazy because nobody knew about it. All of a sudden it just hit and it's like every piece of chicken was tough. We said, ok, we're getting away from this. We went to a small seven, eight ounce breast and we actually cut it ourselves, we butterfly it or we scallopini it and it's become like great. It's always tender right now, but you always have to taste, you always have to look and you always have to listen. So we listen to those guests, we listen to everything. We get a lot of feedback on, you know, every platform there is and we take that, we run with it. That's giving us all the homework that we need. They did it for us.

Speaker 1: 11:52

And I think that I love that you're talking about listening not only to the guests but having a conversation with the bartender, with the servers, but what that requires, first and foremost, is bringing in the right people and training them how to do the right things. Because what happens, glenn, like you know you and I have been in this industry for a long time when most people go up and they do a table touch, it is the most half-hearted check the box thing that you can possibly imagine. All they want to do is go to the next table, right, and you got to teach people and you got to train them and you got to care and you know, we just had Will Gadara on the podcast and making it cool to care, right, that's something that's so important.

Speaker 1: 12:39

And so I love that you're having this dialogue with your staff, because it's a broader conversation than just the one person who's really good at complaining, right?

Speaker 2: 12:49

Yes, yes, yes, but you have to be a listener, like, like we said earlier, it's like you go there to learn, you go there to hear. You want to hear the voice of who's actually eating your food. Our staff. We serve all the time. We feed them all the time. They're not eating the actual food that we're serving in the restaurant, so we want the feedback that they're hearing, that the customer is saying to the manager. It's the only way you can grow. You want people to leave there saying I can't wait to come back and I said it earlier, it's like you never want people to leave unhappy. You do your absolute best to make sure that guest leaves that place, that restaurant, one of our locations really, really happy and excited to come back the next visit.

Speaker 1: 13:32

Yeah, and I think that's you know. You got to leave them a little bit hungry for more Right, and understanding that so much about hospitality nowadays is not about just serving the right food warm, but it's about how they feel when they get the food. It's about how they feel when they get the check. It's about how they feel as they walk out the door and as they're greeted as they walk in Right, and I love that. This is just so fun that we're I've got this chef here on the podcast and we're talking about basically, we're talking about front of house. We're talking about how the guest is feeling in that hospitality. Do you feel like there's a lot of chefs who focus too much on the back of house and they miss the front? Or why do you think there's a lot of chefs that don't put such an emphasis on the front of house?

Speaker 2: 14:25

I think it's an old style, it's an old world that I kind of grew up in, how the chefs did their thing and the front of the house did their thing, and the concern now is that the back of the house doesn't hear it, unless it's a problem. Most of the house did their thing and the concern now is that the back of the house doesn't hear it, unless it's a problem most of the time. So if us as chefs don't communicate with that front of the house, who hears? We don't hear it unless somebody comes and tells us right, they're in the midst of talking to the guests, they're hearing the feedback, they're hearing any issues or complaints. Or we loved it, this was fantastic, that was fantastic. So the communication has to go both ways. So for us it's like what did they say about that? How was this? That's the only way the company is growing. It's getting bigger. We're looking at new locations for Carmine's. We're looking in Orlando, we're looking in many other cities, and the reason for that is because everybody knows that that guest should never leave that restaurant unhappy, you know so. So the communication is critical and, as I said earlier, I'm a chef. I'm in the back of the house most of the time. Now I'm at the position where I have many chefs working with me and I can go out and talk to the guests and get a lot of feedback, and that's how I meet people, that's how I learn and that's how you're still building business at the same time. So we're all working in this together.

Speaker 2: 15:46

You lose a guest and that guest will tell 10, 15, 20 other people that service was terrible. If the food is great and the service is not good, or the front host, that's a very key position because when that guest comes in that door, they want to feel like they're, they're welcome, they're appreciated, thank you for coming in. Even on the way out, same thing. You want the host or the manager or the you know we have security, sometimes at the front door, just when it's absolutely crazy and busy, but we want everybody to be social. We want them to be, you know, able to be talked to, to say thank you, to feel like if you were going to our restaurant. You would want to feel the same way, that people appreciate that you're coming in, not just okay, get out of here. You know next person in, you know we'll do our best. It's it's. You lose business that way and you don't want people unhappy. It makes me feel so good when people walk out of there, so happy and can't wait to come back.

Speaker 1: 16:42

There's not too many other industries that you get that in Glenn right, and yes, that's absolutely true. And what a privilege we have of working in this one. So obviously you know a ton of people. You've you've seen a ton of different brands, but who deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry? Who's someone that we should be following?

Speaker 2: 17:00

Who's someone we should be following. It's kind of a combination when we talk about it. I love to follow chefs to make sure that I see what's out there, because there's so many new things that are coming out there, so restaurants in particular. So me, if I go on my Instagram or I go on my you know Facebook page, I love to follow chefs and I love to follow restaurants that are actually doing things a little bit different, a little exciting. I learned from that.

Speaker 2: 17:28

I see things that I may want to do in one of my restaurants and and those are the people you know, but it's also sometimes a bartender creating these awesome, amazing drinks. And you know we're going through all these things. Where somebody comes up with the greatest idea, everybody wants to copy them, you know. So it's almost like you don't learn unless you're actually out there and you're continuing to learn. So it's either from the chefs, even the server.

Speaker 2: 17:53

You know a lot of people in restaurant industries come into our restaurants to eat. You want them to go out of this saying, wow, I learned a lot from that server. I learned a lot from you know what we can do. Or plating, what kind of plates we use, what kind of you know like how we do things, so I wouldn't pick one position or one particular you know place. I definitely feel that if it's not well-rounded, you're missing the boat. You, you know place. I definitely feel that if it's not well-rounded, you're missing the boat. You have to hit on all levels, and if you're not hitting on all levels, the food was great, service was horrible, or vice versa the service was great, the food was horrible. I don't know if I want to come back.

Speaker 1: 18:29

Yeah, and basically what I'm hearing is this path of be it a you know local bartender, be it like a big time chef, be it a local bartender, be it like a big time chef, be it a server, be it a guest. It's this continuous learning, like you're talking about, glenn, and that's what keeps things interesting and that's what I'm sure inspires you to keep on innovating is just always seeing that. Yeah, I love that Always, being a student there. So where can people go to follow you, carmines or Virgil's?

Speaker 2: 18:58

Well, I'm Chef Glenn Rolnick on Instagram. On Facebook I'm the same CarminesNYCcom. Virgil's Real Barbecue. We have a ton of followers. We love to. We're even promoting a lot more because we're having all these new ideas, we're doing new menu items at Virgil's, so we're putting a lot more out there. But we love to have followers. We love to get feedback. We even put up a lot of guest experiences. So when we have guests that enjoy and put up these great things, we will totally put that on our website, on our Carmine's website or our Virgil's website. And we love feedback, we love it. And if it's something that we need to learn from or something we did wrong, we have to know. If nobody tells us we don't know, we assume we're doing everything really spot on.

Speaker 1: 19:46

Yeah. So I gotta say my experiences have been that way, so yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:51

Yeah, you have to. I mean, look, you never want to lose customers. You always want to continue to grow. So it's whether putting new items on the menu, changing a little bit, getting new types of food, new types of products in that are more upgraded, more healthy, more sustainable. You're always constantly keeping your mind open to say, wow, we got to try that. That's really good. It's so much better than what we have been getting in the past. We can do better and we're always trying to do better.

Speaker 1: 20:22

I love that. Well, glenn, for helping us focus on continuous improvement and growth. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you so much for joining us on Given Ovation.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Thank you, Derek. I really appreciate you having me on.

Speaker 1: 21:01

And Carmines and Virgil. Thank you very, OvationUpcom.