Zack: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today I am welcoming Chris Treloar.

Zack: 0:28

Chris Treloar, chris Treloar he is not only a standout leader in tattoos and hairstyle and being CEO of PLNT Burger, but he's just a great guy. He's had his entire career in restaurant operations and he actually started his leadership career at Friendly's, which is where I started my first foray into restaurants. And interesting to know two fun facts about Chris. Number one the first time that we met in person was on an elevator in Las Vegas and just to kind of give you the type of guy that Chris is that he could meet someone on an elevator in Vegas. And also the second fun guy that Chris is that he could meet someone on an elevator in Vegas. And also the second fun fact about Chris is that he is a huge Giants fan.

Chris: 1:15

All right, he's an Eagles fan. I might get cut onto that.

Zack: 1:21

He's a huge Eagles fan. But, chris, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, thanks so much.

Chris: 1:24

welcome to the podcast Thanks. Thanks so much, zach, yeah.

Zack: 1:26

Now you've had such a great career, especially like you know restaurant operations super well. You've done it your whole career. What is it that most people get wrong when it comes to restaurant operations?

Chris: 1:39

Oh, wow, I mean it's a tough question. I guess I think the biggest thing is just keep it simple, and I think that KISS principle right it's like they keep it simple stupid really is just so true. I think everybody's looking for a way to kind of put their mark on things, but it's honestly super simple. It's a really great product. Take really good care of people Doesn't take much to run a business. You just do the basics and be nice to everybody and I think you'll be okay.

Zack: 2:06

That's interesting, that everybody wants to make their mark on something, because I see this, as you said, I'm looking back at my career and it's like there's so many times where like, well, I want to make a difference here, and so what it does is it adds complexity to things.

Chris: 2:19

that doesn't really need it. I think you know, anytime I've ever I've kind of made my career about getting into a situation where there was changes to be made or there was a problem, and the one thing I always do is I kind of jump in and I take a step back. So my first couple of weeks or month there I'm really getting to know people, I'm getting to know the situation. There's always things that when you first start somewhere that make no sense to you why would I ever do that? But then a month later you're like, oh my gosh, that makes total sense and I can see it now.

Chris: 2:47

And I think people's first instinct in those situations are like let me make my mark right away. You know they get into a situation and it's like no, this needs to change or this needs to change. I've done like this in the more receptive when you have a relationship with them and you've earned their trust and you know more about them. My initial conversations with people are typically not anything about work or about business. It's like who's your favorite sports team? Where are you from? You have kids.

Zack: 3:18

What's your hair product?

Chris: 3:19

The most important question what are you doing with your hair? But yeah, I mean mean you get to know people, you break down a little bit of that barrier that they naturally have. So again, for me, man, it's always been. I don't know if you've ever seen the fish video. I assume you have everyone's seen fish, the fish philosophy, but that always resonated with me when I was with friendlies. Actually, they show that in their management training and the fact that these people took something that's like very basic right, like selling fish in a fish market, and they turned it into this really fun, exciting thing. Not because they developed a system that systematized how much fish to give people or what the correct portions are, but they had so much fun and excitement that people wanted to be there and they wanted to come back and come back and they created this business out of just like, hey, man, let's just go to work and enjoy ourselves. And that always like after seeing that the first time. Because I wasn't like that right, when I first started in leadership I was very rigid and I wasn't like, hey, let's have fun. Hey, let's get to know people. I was like, don't you tear the top of the bread bag open, I'm going to throw it in the trash. Don't you put the wrong portion on something and throw it in the trash? And I was rigid and I don't think people really enjoyed working with me.

Chris: 4:24

There was actually a time I went into a location and I was managing there at Friendly's. It was Morrisville location and I went in and we had two call outs. So now I'm the only person in the restaurant you worked at Friendly, so I'm sure you know this. I'm like cooking the food, I'm getting the drinks, I'm waiting on the people. It was the middle of the day so it was slow. But like you get two or three tables and now you're done, you're good, yeah.

Chris: 4:46

And this girl that works there walks in and she would always get there a few hours early and she would sit at the counter and do homework. And I'm like, hey, would you mind just clocking in? I'm like getting crushed here. And she's like, no, no, I'm going to do my homework. And I immediately realized like man, I'm always mean to this girl.

Chris: 5:02

I never tried to build a relationship with her. I'm like very like, do this or do that or get out, or, and immediately, kind of, I realized like crap, like if she liked me even the tiniest little bit. If I was even like, had the smallest relationship with her, she would not have wanted to sit there and watch me go down. But because I'd never done that, it was work for her. She came in, she was going to clock in when she was due in and that was all there was to it. And obviously you don't change like that, right.

Chris: 5:25

But those kinds of experiences and then the fish video, really led me to understand that the environment is so key and the relationships that you have with these people mean so much more honestly than than any of this stuff that you can do to fix the relationship or to fix the restaurant. You think about it as being a parent, right? Your kids don't want to let you down because they love you, but they also know there's repercussions and it's this kind of balance you walk. And so I think through my career that's really what I've tried to master is like let's find a way to build relationships with people and have a good time. Well, also, they know hey, don't do A, b or C.

Zack: 5:59

I love that. I asked you about operations and you talked about relationships, right, because I think that is so key. It's like there's a famous quote of teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves. But it's this concept that you need to really show that love for people, and then see what the magic happens. Teach them the right things to do, but then, if you love them, then they'll realize that, oh, this is how Chris likes things and let's keep doing it this way. And how do we do a little bit more? How do we do a little bit more? Not because I have to, but because it's the right thing to do, and I think that's a great concept about that. Consistency is super important, but not at the expense of connection.

Chris: 6:42

Oh, and I think the thing is too. I think as leaders, sometimes you get caught up in like I'm in a position of leadership because I know the best way right. So somebody comes to you with an idea and you're like no, no, that's not the way I would do it. This is how you're going to do it. And I think if you consistently tell people no, they A stop giving you ideas. You lose the ability to learn new things, and then they never find out if that's a good idea. So for me, as long as you're not going to take a chance with our business, that's going to get us in any sort of trouble or ruin our reputation.

Chris: 7:12

I typically am pretty open to letting people try things because a you learn way more from mistakes than you do successes. You know what I mean. Like you do something, it doesn't work. It's very easy for you then to go oh, that didn't work, you don't want to not do it again because I told you you shouldn't. You don't want to not do it again because you realize, oh, wow, that's not a good idea.

Chris: 7:30

And then the other side of that is, many of the successes I've had in my career have been somebody had a great idea and I was like, let's do it. And it worked, I think. I think there's a natural feeling of like it needs to be your idea for you to be successful, and I don't think it's true. I mean, I think, at the end of the day, as a leader, you're successful through your people, so if they come up with great ideas and they flourish because of it, the most rewarding thing to you should be to like, wow, I've seen this guy grow, or seen this girl grow into a leadership position, or now she's the CEO somewhere else, or so to me, I've always liked to give people a little bit of rope. You know what I mean. Let them learn. And again, as long as you're not doing something that's totally putting the company in jeopardy and I've taught you enough that I feel comfortable your ideas are based in good nature then try it and see what happens. Yeah.

Zack: 8:16

And, at the end of the day, all of the things that we're doing are to create a great guest experience, right? Yeah, absolutely, and so I'd love to get your thoughts on what are the most important aspects of guest experience nowadays.

Chris: 8:27

To me, like the two most important things and I see them in the reverse so often are like A just be nice to people. I mean, I was a server before I was ever a manager and to me it didn't matter how long food took or how bad the food was, it really just mattered if I was talking to them. So, if it took an hour, but I went over to the table 10 times and was like hey, I'm really sorry, can I get you a drink on us? Can I get you an appetizer on us? People are not really mad. They were mad when you didn't talk to them. Right, it took an hour and they're looking around trying to find things. And I think in every walk of service it's the same thing Just talk to people, be nice to them, explain to them what's going on and don't get caught up in trying to be right.

Chris: 9:04

I'm sure we've all been in that situation where we go somewhere and we have a problem with something and then the person on the other side of the counter wants to explain to us why we're wrong. Well, no, sir, this is the rule and this is why we do it this way and this is why this and I'm having this experience I'm not happy with. I don't need to know why. I need you to do what you can to make me feel happy, and one of the things I say to my team all the time is, like, don't get caught up trying to be right.

Chris: 9:33

At the end of the day, you just want people to leave happy, so one it's a waste of your time. You're not going to leave that situation happy any more than they are, because you're going to get to give yourself anxiety trying to argue with them. Yeah, listen, just do what you can to make them happy, communicate well with them, and if you've done everything in your power to make the situation end well, then you've done all you can. But definitely don't spend your time trying to educate people. Spend your time trying to be nice and create connection through joy instead of teaching.

Zack: 10:04

That is so smart, because again and there's that word again connection, where it's so key that you because we always talk about how you have to have convenience and then consistency and then connection and that's how you build a world-class brand is connection with your guests and connection, as you were talking about at the beginning, with your people.

Chris: 10:26

I think that's the hardest thing too. I mean the consistency piece. The mechanics of it is easy, right, like develop systems when there's a million of them that exist. Do A, b and C at X, y and Z. The hardest thing is you can't train personality so like, how do you teach someone to be good at talking to customers? How do you teach someone? And I think the only way you do that is by creating a good environment.

Chris: 10:49

If people are happy somewhere, they will give that to the guests. Like everything kind of starts at the top. If you go into I'm sure you work for bad leaders. You go into a place regardless of how great your personality is and how happy you are. There's a 0% chance that you're going to give great guest service. If your leader is a pain, you're going to go in and be like man, I don't want to be here. I hate this guy. He forced me to work on a day I didn't want to. He's like he doesn't know anything about me. There's no flip side of that.

Chris: 11:14

If you walk into a place and like everyone's happy and everyone's enjoying themselves, you're not going to be the odd man out Like I'm just going to be cranky because everybody else is happy. You know what I mean. You're probably going to fall in line and be happy too, and then you're going to give that same sort of service to your guest, and I think it just kind of all starts at the top. I care a lot about cleanliness and procedure and all those kind of things. I think they're basics, right, like you're going to do them no matter what. You'll never see me walk into a location and just start hammering people like why isn't that done? Why isn't that done? Why isn't that done? The first thing I do when I walk in is hey, how you guys doing, how was your weekend? How's your kids? How's this, how's that?

Chris: 11:51

and then later on we can talk about those other things. Obviously there's something massively important. There's a tile falling out and then it's going to hit a customer or something. But if everything is decent and you walk into a place, the first thing you want to do is create the environment, and it's easy to do the other things. An hour later I can say hey, you got a couple minutes, let's look at these five things. And now you're in a good mood, you're happy. We've already talked about a couple other things. We have a friendship, we have a relationship. You don't want to do those things, whereas if I walk in and the first thing I do is like boom, boom, boom, mark on the counter here. And what is this? Nevermind, there's a line at the counter and you're getting crushed for lunch service. Let's talk immediately about these two little smudges in the counter. And I think sometimes we just get caught up in that right, like just build the environment and everything else kind of falls into place, I think.

Zack: 12:39

I love that. I think that's great advice on guest experience. And what about some tactics? What are some things that you've done at Plant Burger to improve the guest experience?

Chris: 12:50

Yeah, I mean again, I think the environment piece is important, right Like we start from top down. We're very engaging and fun. We like to keep it very kind of loose and happy, kind of all up and down the chain. The other thing that we've done recently that I think has been super impactful is we talk about the data on a weekly basis. So every single week on a Tuesday we have a meeting with the leaders and one thing we go over actually and not to kiss up to USAC, but we take the ovation reports, which are really great. We talk about the service scores, we talk about the response rates rates, we talk about the timing of the response and on a regular basis we're talking about those and we're not talking about them in a demonstrative way. Why do you suck? Why do you don't? Because the reality is like the overwhelming majority of feedback is good. Right, a few bad experiences are ones that we have to fix, but overwhelmingly it's very good. Which is why what we've really leaned into the last year has been response rate and response timing, because I think if you can respond to a problem very quickly, it's fresh in the person's mind and you respond to them 100% of the time it's so much more impactful. I mean, base levels are going to give good service, right, like base level. You're going to walk in. You're going to get your product. I'm going to smile. You're going to walk in, you're going to get your product. I'm going to smile, you're going to walk out.

Chris: 14:03

It's not very memorable, like. The most memorable experience is like you went into the store. You had a terrible experience, whether it was a problem with the server, it was a problem with the environment, it was a problem with the food, and someone immediately reached out to you and was like oh my goodness, what happened? What can we do to fix it? That's such a more memorable, rewarding experience to us. So over the past few months we've really leaned into that. It's like what's the response? Timing?

Zack: 14:29

And it's amazing, like looking at your backend system. I mean just seeing how much customers love you. And to see your online reviews. I mean not to share anything that isn't already public, but you go, look at your online reviews. You have 4.7 stars online People love you. When I look at your online reviews, you have 4.7 stars online People love you. When I look at your response rate and your customer saved and how many people are willing to give you feedback, it's incredible that you've got such a passionate group of people.

Zack: 14:54

But I think, again, talking about fish, a fish stinks from the head. First you got to care at the top, then care about your people, and then they care about the guests of care at the top than care about your people and then they care about the guests. And you can see that based on how you're responding and how your customers are reacting to the responses. Like, wow, thanks for responding. The bar is set so low, chris, right Of providing hospitality, especially in a place like PLNT Burger and, for those who haven't been there, the locations that I've been in it's not like there's a thousand seats in it, it's a pretty small front of house.

Zack: 15:30

You go in and there's some like bars that you could dine at there and some small tables, but it's not like a dine-in place. So if something goes wrong, you're typically finding out about it when you get back to the office, when you get back home. And for you to extend that hospitality outside the four walls and to really do it is impactful and it shows in your online scores. It shows in the scores that your guests are giving you. It shows in their recency and frequency and spend. It shows that you care.

Chris: 16:00

Yeah, we have a great system to use too.

Zack: 16:04

Yeah, and I guess kind of to use too. So yeah, no-transcript.

Chris: 16:10

I think that's the best way. You know, I've used lots of others and I won't name drop them now, but I remember in the past you were like, okay, if you can respond within 24 hours, right, I think that was great and you can get back to somebody within a day, which, like, if that's your baseline, your average is probably two days and then there's people that you're probably not getting back to going back through them Because, again, to me, the feedback piece is always great. We actually just recently ran a promo where we took people that had given us a poor review and hadn't been back in six months because we wanted to, like, offer them the world Like you had a bad experience, you didn't come back, you obviously didn't like us and we want a chance to win you back. I had a prior company that did something similar, so I went through and looked at all these past complaints or past responses and there was people that hadn't people hadn't gotten back to them in six months. No one ever responded to them and by the time we reached back out to them, they're like, oh, what happened when? I remember that I didn't even know I ain't there, I'm so sorry.

Chris: 17:05

The ability to do it quickly and so easily. The fact that everybody responds via text right now, right, like nobody wants to talk on the phone, nobody wants to have certain types of connections, so the ability to do it quickly via text is so impactful, I think. And again, our average now is below 10 hours. I mean, there's weeks we're at eight hours, there's weeks we've been even below that. So again it's like immediate. You have a bad experience. You may not remember your bad experience you had a week ago, but you're going to remember it same day. So the fact that you can get back to them so quickly, it's such a short, quick, like hey was this good, hey was this bad. Because I've also had experiences where it was like tell me about your visit in 17 questions and I'm like no.

Zack: 17:46

I just want to tell you you missed my fries.

Chris: 17:49

Yeah, like I don't have the time for that man. If you ask me a question and you were forcing me to write a sentence about it, I'm probably not going to answer you. I'm just going to take my poor feedback to the streets and never tell you about it. So the fact that it can happen in such a very quick like did you like us, did you not? Okay, what can we do and take care of them so quickly, I think is mention their name either.

Chris: 18:12

I happened to be in Disney last year and I was at pool and just started talking to this guy and it turned out he worked for another feedback company and he did this thing where they're like look up your brand and give you a score. So he's like the goal of that is for him to say oh look, how bad your score is, you need to come work with us. And so we did our Nomad location and he was like wow, your square's like perfect. I'm like thanks, man. So I guess I don't need to change anything, but I'm like yeah, it's so seamless, so easy. There is so much feedback you get from it because it's so easy for the customer to give you the feedback, which is why I've done it and I think I've been consistent in saying I think you guys do it better than I am.

Zack: 18:49

So I appreciate that and I think that one of the things about Ovation is that we have to work with brands that care, and you've done a great job at leading a brand that truly does care, and I think that it goes from looking at the branding to the people, to the guests. That's the secret ingredient. You talked to the very top about having good food, and I think it's interesting that we haven't talked a lot about food here, because PLNT Burger is a very unique brand. It's a PLNT brand but it's not, in your face, obnoxious. You know, like hey, convert to the gospel of veganism. It's just kind of like a subtle thing of like hey, this is who we are.

Zack: 19:25

And as someone who can't have like milkshakes growing up at Friendly's and I became allergic to milk in my 20s and so that was one of the things that I love going to New York and I love going to PLNT Burger because I can get a great strawberry shake with I don't even put sprinkles in it and it's just fun, Like you can do fun things that you can't do elsewhere because the food is great, but all of that is table steaks. Nowadays you don't go to a restaurant just because they have good food. You go because of the experience and how you feel and I love that that is here. We are in a restaurant podcast and like give two mentions to the food right Because that's table stakes.

Chris: 20:06

Yeah, I think to your point. Man, listen, nobody's starting a business with bad food, right? There's not a company out there. That's like you know what. We're going to serve this really terrible product. We hope people come. Everybody's serving good product.

Chris: 20:16

I mean, there's good food so many places in the market. But I do think the difference is the experience and you're going to remember that more. You do remember good food. There's a few places I've been to where I'm like man, the food is just so impeccable. You can't forget it. But experience has also been like there was this amazing server, there was this like lighting. I really had a great time that night. I do think the experience and the environment is like.

Chris: 20:38

Again, to me everything else is base. You gotta have good employees, you've gotta have good systems, you've gotta have clean restaurants, you've gotta have good food. But if that's all you had, you would still fail. Right, you could have the best food, cleanest restaurants, best procedures, best numbers in the industry, and if you didn't have a great environment, you didn't have great people, you would fail.

Chris: 21:00

The most important thing is just create that environment that makes people want to work for you, and the other thing that we do here and I've always done through my career is we try very hard to promote from within. I think that creates opportunity for your team, that they see they don't want to leave because they see this upward mobility, the people that have worked for you, that you know and you trust and you believe in, help believe in you, like you've parented them into this new role. I feel very strongly about. You should create the majority of your team from internal promotions because those are the people that have bled for you right? They're the people that have been on the front lines crushing themselves and they deserve opportunities and I came from those opportunities, so I would love to see more people be able to do that.

Zack: 21:39

I love it. Hey, Chris, I know that you know a ton of people in this industry, but who is someone that you think deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry? Who's someone that we should be following?

Chris: 21:54

So I was going to say I was thinking about restaurants, but like, so I'm, I'm vegan. Now I've actually only been vegan now for about four months and my foray into being vegan is difficult to go grocery shopping because you have to read every single label. It can take a ton of time. So I may be late to the party here, but I went to trader joe's the other day for the first time. There's probably a bunch of other people, but they have trader joe.

Zack: 22:13

Joe's yeah, they got a couple.

Chris: 22:15

Yeah, but it was like the most amazing place. Man, and I mean obviously the small foods is great, wagons is great, but like Trader Joe's was just so different to me. It was like very bright. It's smaller, so you can see light everywhere in there. The people that work there are super engaging and they had this like little game that was going on where you could find a goat and the kids could get a lollipop at the front. So my kids were super excited about it. People just seemed happier. Again, everything is labeled really well, which I love. It was easy to find vegan items and bring them home. All the product was delicious. I may be late to the party. It was my first time there.

Zack: 22:47

When I lived in San Francisco, trader Joe's like saved me, yeah, I. Trader Joe's like saved me, yeah, I mean that was like my entertainment and food for the day was going to Trader Joe's I love it.

Chris: 22:59

I'm late to the party maybe, but it was great. It was my first time there. I'm feeling good about it.

Zack: 23:04

Love that. Well, chris. If I want to learn more about PLNT Burger or if I want to follow you, where could I go?

Chris: 23:09

Yeah, I mean obviously go to the website. I think we have a great website with a ton of content there. You can place your orders on the website, which is great. We're on all the socials Facebook, twitter, we're now X, it's called Instagram. I mean, personally, I'm on LinkedIn and you can find me there.

Zack: 23:25

Well, check out Chris Treloar on LinkedIn and PLNT Burger P-L-N-T. Burgercom. Chris, for giving my leadership skills and my hair something to aspire to. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on. Give an Ovation, thanks so much, zach.

Zack: 23:44

Appreciate it, man. Awesome. Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.