Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast is your backstage pass to the minds of hospitality leaders, innovators, and operators who are redefining what it means to serve. Hosted by Zack Oates, founder of Ovation, each episode dives into real-world tactics and inspiring stories from restaurant pros who know how to create five-star guest experiences—both in-store and off-premise.
From fast casual to fine dining, catering to curbside, learn how to drive loyalty, empower your staff, and deliver hospitality that hits home. Whether you're a restaurant owner, operator, marketer, or tech partner, this podcast will leave you with practical insights and plenty of reasons to celebrate and Give an Ovation.
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
The Power of People: Matt Rolfe on Hospitality Leadership
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In this episode of Give an Ovation, we learn about effective hospitality leadership with Matt Rolfe, a hospitality leadership coach, speaker, and author of "You Can't Do it Alone." Matt shares his insights on helping multi-unit restaurant operators, focusing on the people element of the business to ensure success and growth. Learn about the importance of clarity, prioritization, and a relentless focus on guest and employee experiences.
Thanks, Matt!
Creating Consistent Guest and Employee Experience
Speaker 1Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation , the restaurant guest experience podcast , where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience . This podcast is sponsored by Ovation , an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives you all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions . Learn more at OvationUpcom . And today we have a good friend of a few years now , Matt Rolfe . He's a hospitality leadership coach , speaker , entrepreneur , author of you Can't Do it Alone . Welcome to the pod , Matt . How are you ?
Speaker 2Zach , I am thrilled to be here , my man . Thanks so much for having me .
Speaker 1Absolutely . I love our conversations and sometimes we get to record them , which is fun . So , matt , talk to me about what is it that you do and who is it that you help .
Speaker 2Yeah , so I help multi-unit restaurant operators working usually between three and 50 locations . My niche is . I focus on the people element of the business . I spent my entire career in the industry . I can talk ops , but what I focus on ? How does the leader get clear and protect themselves , focus themselves , and how do we engage and inspire our team to move in the direction of our goals ? Whatever that strategy might look like , it's different for different operators , groups and brands , but I just want to make it a little bit easier on the human element of our industry .
Speaker 1What do you see most restaurateurs doing wrong ?
Speaker 2Doing wrong . The biggest thing I see , especially now , is that we just most recently saw each other at the restaurant show in Chicago . One of the opportunities there's so much noise , buzz , opportunity , choice . The challenge for operators that I see is there's going to be great ideas , opportunities that we have to say no to in order to stay focused on our priorities and our true goals . So the biggest thing I see getting wrong is there's so much choice as we get drawn into the choice and opportunity , not staying focused on what's really going to move you yourself , your team and your brand forward .
Speaker 1And how do you distinguish that ?
Speaker 2Yeah , that's a really great question To jump right into . What I often do with leaders it's just , first off is creating a visual . Say , we're sitting in a workshop environment I'm often in a boardroom or room or sitting in a restaurant and what we do in a visual way a whiteboard or a butcher paper is just write the opportunities up and what I want them to see is the amount of great things that could happen for you . But then what I want them to do intentionally is rank them in priority order , and not that they're not all important , not that they're not all great ideas or opportunities , but we want to convince ourselves that we don't have extra hours and time . So great teams make choice , and choice is hard , but choice also allows us the opportunity for focus . So say , we get 10 things on a list and then you're going to get to direct them in priority order and then get them to pick one or three things to execute .
Speaker 2It's a hard conversation . It's not about the list . It's about proving to the team what happens when they get focused on a direction . Most teams I get exposure to when they're focused , do great things . It's when so much activity gets in the way and I'm guilty of that too . There's no judgment here . I've done it for decades as an entrepreneur . The opportunity is how do we stay focused on what matters most right now ?
Speaker 1Interesting Now . What do you think for restaurants matters most right now ?
Speaker 2Interesting Now what do you think for restaurants ? What is most important right now ? I would say the biggest thing for me , and it goes . I think there are two sides of the same coin . What I'm hearing is that restaurant operators across North America are having better opportunity attracting people , so the attracting issue isn't as loud , meaning , going back a couple years we just couldn't find humans to come inside of our restaurants , but now it's . One of the challenges is retention . So I think the biggest opportunity is how do we retain the people we have through the lens that we want them to provide a guest experience that's consistent and hopefully allows us to stand out from our competitive set .
Speaker 1And when you say , when you say find people like , retain people , you're talking about employees , right ?
Speaker 2I think at all levels . So the exposure that I get is like , say , you're in QSR I think Starbucks reported recently that they range between 300 and 400% annual staff turnover , so that might be your frontline barista , just to give us an example we're all aware of . But we're also seeing turnover in the management ranks and I think that we want to pay it to supervisor and manager ranks all the way up to leadership , and we want to pay attention to both , because if we have consistent turn in our people , we're consistently investing in training and might not be producing the result . If we have a turnover in leadership at its core , it creates inconsistency for our people which allows them to potentially not trust us . They've just been through a lot . They went through pandemic exposures for those laid off , whichever it is .
Speaker 2But what we want , if we're seeing management turnovers , do your people feel safe ? There's a fundamental human need for all of us to feel safe and if management's turning over and creating a consistent experience , we don't feel safe If we look for other opportunities or more risk to us . On this call , on this podcast , we look to other industries .
Speaker 1We want to keep them home and consistency of leadership is important to keep them with us . Yeah , and I think that that's so key because , as you look at , the one of the things we talk about is that it is really hard for the guest experience to exceed the employee experience , and it's impossible to do that consistently right , and so you got to focus on your people and what do you think relating this to the guest ? What do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I just want to make sure everybody here like if we could clip that and put that on social . What you just shared the guest experience can't exceed the employee experience . I think that that's brilliant . I think it's simple . It should probably be written on all our laptops or on our walls just to keep us focused . A little bit of a book at a Richard Branson's page . Right , take care of your people , they'll take care of your guests . And I think the next question what's most important to the guests right now ? Yeah , I think so .
Speaker 2What the data that I've been able to get my hands on ? And there it , coming out of the pandemic . We wanted to reconnect with people . Now what the data is saying is that we want an experience , especially with inflation , menu price increases , discretionary spend going down . Is the data supports that when your guest goes out , they want an experience . My coaching and my clients .
Speaker 2It doesn't necessarily need to be a wow experience where we significantly over-deliver or pattern or grow , but how do we create a consistently relentless guest experience and how do we recognize , reward and celebrate our staff when they provide it ? Rather than giving them crap , I would I don't know if you're gonna swear during the podcast give them shit for not doing it on the other end , because I think old culture is let's coach staff when they don't . My biggest belief is that recognition is free and we have the celebration , once we have the right feedback from our guests , to celebrate , recognize , reward our people so they know what great looks like . And we're very simple as humans we do .
Speaker 2When we do something and it feels good , we want to do more of it . We either move away from pain , meaning that doesn't feel good , or that feels good . Let's do more . How do we highlight as close to the moment you know , whether that be in the moment , the next week or on a monthly basis , be sure to be recognizing our people , because I think what guests want right now is an experience , but they want it to be consistent . Sorry for the rant here , but at a lot of my workshops I'll ask them what was the last restaurant you went to ? That was a great experience , and very seldom do hands go up . I think it's such an opportunity just to provide consistency as stage one and remarkable as stage two guest experience for your guests , starting with your people .
Speaker 1And I think the thing that is so important to remember is that it doesn't take very much to wow a guest . It doesn't ? You just need to care , and you need to make sure the guest knows that you care . Right ? Another bumper sticker that I talk about all the time is hospitality is proving to the guest you care , and if you prove to them that you care by simply showing them small things that make sure that you could say we did this just for you . That's what it comes down to , and I think that's so key
Improving Customer Experience Through Engagement
Speaker 1.
Speaker 2When we were in Chicago , I had a really beautiful experience . That was in a hotel property and it was a Hilton property not that it matters , but they had a licensed coffee shop that we would all know . But there was a tip prompt . And one thing that I watch and I know we're all talking about tip prompts in respect to the guest experience and full service or QSR but what I watched the staff do is the line . It was queued up pretty long and they genuinely looked and thanked everybody from a position just thank you for anybody who chose to tip it , and they didn't .
Speaker 2There was no judgment and I just thought that there's a remarkable pattern in the road , like it's just a simple way , like when they are tipped , they made eye contact and said thank you . When I walked away , I am grateful like I went back to that spot , I shot a video , I gave the lady a hug a hug . I'm like I need more of you in my life , rather than an expectation of 20% menu price increase and a 20% expected tip , which is a 40% increase on what we're paying for , especially in a QSR environment . No judgment , we got to do what we got to do , but I think there's just simple ways done consistently acknowledging people , giving them space , giving them your presence . It's not a complicated formula . Giving them your presence it's not a complicated formula , but it still is an opportunity to do consistently for any operator out there .
Speaker 1Amen . And so , speaking of that , what are some other tactics that you've seen to improve the guest experience ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I think clarity is key . So I'm really passionate about the guest experience and when I started our coaching companies , we've worked with hundreds and hundreds of operators on designing their service strategy and the key thing is , what we want is to ensure the leaders are clear as to what the desired guest experience looks like , and often I go into a client they might have 10 steps of service , 16 steps of service or a manual that nobody's looked at since induction , and we broke it down to the rawest point in three simple ways . One of the three things we're looking to do with every guest first interaction in the core of the dining experience , hopefully , things we're looking to do with every guest first interaction in the core of the dining experience . Hopefully we can make passionate recommendations that are genuine , that support average check and then how do we end the experience in a memorable way ? So that's just and that could be getting them a check in the appropriate amount of time . But how do we make sure and this is an exercise we work to the very large spirit company . We've traveled the world working with their top one percent of operators , but we go to their staff after these fun workshops and say to the staff write on a napkin what you're expected to do with each guest .
Speaker 2Very , very rarely I think maybe 2% of the time that somebody could actually write out the same steps . I want to make sure every single employee on your frontline knows the experience you're looking to create for your guests , and it doesn't need to be complicated . I want everybody to hear Zach's points . We can do it on a napkin , we can do it on a page , we can shoot a video of what it looks like , but we need to show what great looks like in its simplest form and then let your people be themselves . You know , if you hire properly , they can show up and be their genuine person . But communicate , over-communicate , reinforce your communication . Now , if you're not talking about your guest experience in every pre-shift and every email that goes up for your schedule , we're missing an opportunity to be great .
Speaker 1Yeah , I remember someone they wear glasses with , like the Ray-Ban , with a camera lens on them , and they just they do it and then they upload that to their training platform and then they make sure that everybody watches it so they can see , literally from the owner's perspective , what does great look like right , you got to have that standard .
Speaker 2Yeah , and we do a thing , one of the simple tactics we used to do with leaders . It's the thing that makes most sense , but it's rarely done , and we learned this from Best Buy . We did a big project in consumer retail for Best Buy , but we have managers take first guest . You know , if there is a restaurant and I know not a lot of people are going to do this , but if you have that really great front house manager , when their first guests could be shift change could be opening , could be late night , but how do they go up and jump on the floor and show their staff what great look like and that we're willing to do what we want you to do as well ? It might not fit all brands out there , but if you want to be playful and curious , give that a try . It's a really great learning opportunity and those right there .
Speaker 1What does that look like ?
Speaker 2So basically we just have a . So if there's a shift say there's a crossover shift and we're going into our night day part and a guest comes in , we have the manager actually come in and possibly seat the guest and show what the right host transition to the table looks like . Or we might , and we can all see a lot of times we do thousands of mystery shops a year . But I encourage clients that we can do a mystery shop experience through . I think there should be multiple points of evaluation , but one is you can see it happening . So you can see how a manager goes to the table or a staff member , how they interact with the guests , how they listen , how they record , how they passionate recommend , whether you're going to hear the words . You can see the transaction . So I think the opportunity there is just a . How do we continue to reinforce what great looks like ? And it's something that's a little bit due to hospitality , but many other industries have their leaders reinforcing what great looks like on a daily basis , and those Ray-Ban glasses are not expensive .
Speaker 1That's a really great idea , yeah they're not and they actually don't look that bad . I mean like I didn't ?
Speaker 2They're the same as the Ray-Ban glasses . I think they look pretty good .
Speaker 1Yeah , I know pretty cool , I think that , but there's technology like that that , again , it's not replacing people , it's not replacing hospitality , but what it is it's enhancing . And that is where I feel like there's a delicate balance in the tech world of making sure that your people are still involved you still have to have that eye contact but that you're utilizing technology to help you improve . And I think that things like showing what great looks like is something that you're utilizing technology to help you improve , and I think that things like showing what great looks like is something that you can do in Omaha and send it to 3000 locations . And we should . We should be , and it doesn't have to be , but the beautiful thing is it doesn't have to be one of these like really well-produced videos . Just have a great chef , just show them how you do it . And I think that's the key is just talking through exactly what's happening is really key to make sure that your people can see that it's possible , it's doable and it's not that hard .
Speaker 2And here's this a little bit deeper . But I think your audience is definitely kind of in this lane of guest experience . We break down training into a few different pockets . So often the guest experience is left in induction . So we teach somebody where they can wear the shirt and put the name tag on and serve the table . But I think there's induction , then there's training and then there's coaching . But often we look at it as the same process . So if we look at it in different stages , we do want to move people through induction . I know enough so I can wear , I can do my job . Training I might have a few shadow shifts and or somebody supporting people .
Speaker 2What does ongoing to support and coaching look like ? It doesn't take hours , it can be simple . We can coach in the moment , we can talk in pre-shifts , we could shoot simple videos . Your staff don't want produced commercials , they want scrappy , real content . We produce it for a lot of clients . But just how do we look at staying engaged with your staff ? Ongoing as to what matters most , I don't know what that looks like for you , but I would assure for 95% of us it's around .
Speaker 2How do we create a good guest experience , create passionate recommendations that draw them back . But as guest , we have to look at the results right . Guest transactions in North America are in a double-digit decline . But what the data is also supporting is the average person out there a recent survey just came out is willing to spend up to $38 more through recommendations . That blew my mind . This isn't a full-service dining environment . Up to $38 more was a large-scale survey on scale . But if we're willing , what they need is the staff to bring forward opportunities through the guest experience , to lead , to recommend , to engage , to get the service timings down . I don't think everyone's going to go up $38 , but what if everybody went ? The reality for most of us , your profitability for your restaurants and the extra $4 . How do we motivate , inspire , recognize , reward , engage our staff to make sure to continuously deliver that experience that your guest wants ? The data supports it . They want an experience around your , not just the food , around the engagement .
Speaker 1Totally Now . Obviously , matt , you know a lot of people in this industry , so this next question is going to be a doozy , but who is someone in the restaurant industry that we should be following ? Who deserves an ovation ?
Speaker 2There's a few , I've got to go . There's a couple here that I'll rhyme off . Sean Walsh , obviously , is becoming it's just a dear friend . The man's passion for the industry is incredible . I just got off a call with Christian Fisher from the Disruptive Chef . He is one of the best entrepreneurs I have ever experienced . Met in my life and through being involved in entrepreneurs organization I've met hundreds if not thousands . But if somebody who's truly is disrupting the industry but in the backend is just such a genuine kind soul trying to help all of us , I think he's somebody that should be on your list . And then looking at even something like Kristen Marvin like looking at her stuff , what she's putting out and how she's trying to help and what they're trying to help for people working through addiction in our industry is it's heartwarming and it's needed .
Speaker 1Amen , Amen . Love that Now , Matt . Where can people go to learn more about you if they're interested in your services ?
Speaker 2Yeah , if somebody wants , there's mattrolfcom . You can check out my stuff online . We have a commitment to give away all of our content , our learning . So if you want to follow me on LinkedIn , we put out a video a day on LinkedIn on average , just to get content out there that we hope , from our experience , will help you and your team , and we've got a ton of content on YouTube . All of our courses have been broken down into bite-sized pieces that we give away for free . The book is on Amazon . You can't do it alone . I'm in my face and it showed up . It was never my intention to sell books . We could care less about selling books . We wanted to get a message out there . Anybody selling a book through Amazon , you make less than a buck on the book . We're not a registry for book . We want to help If anybody's interested in the book .
Speaker 1it is a great podcast . I appreciate you coming on and for reminding us that it's people first and people always . Today's ovation goes to you . Thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation , thanks man .
Speaker 2Thank you , zach . Thanks for all that you do , brother , awesome .
Speaker 3Thanks for joining us today . If you liked this episode , leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen . We're all about feedback here . Again , this episode was sponsored by Ovation , a two-question , sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants . If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience , visit us at OvationUpcom .