Career Growth and Decision Making

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation , the restaurant guest experience podcast , where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience . This podcast is sponsored by Ovation , an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions . Learn more at OvationUpcom . And today we have a good friend of mine that I had the privilege of meeting earlier this year and have just been so inspired by his career We've had the chance of having we've broken bread together numerous calls George Caligretis .

Speaker 1 0:40

He's had a 50-year career at Disney , starting as a busboy , actually , and then working up various executive positions , including president of Disneyland and Disney World . What an incredible career , george . I'm so excited to get a spoonful of wisdom from your ocean of knowledge . So thanks for joining us and give an ovation . Thanks , zach , pleasure to be here . So first of all , I just want to quickly touch on your career journey , because it's so interesting that you went from busboy to president . What was that journey like ? And when you started , when was it that you were like ?

Speaker 2 1:21

I am a Disney for lifer was it that you were like I am a Disney for lifer . So I grew up in Florida and I , just , timing wise , was very fortunate because I had graduated from high school in 1971 . And in that summer Disney began to hire for the opening of Walt Disney World . So I was going to go to college and I needed a job in order to do that . So I applied and I got hired as a busboy and , fortunately , pretty soon after we opened I moved into a server position , which was really great . But I think my career , what was perfect , was as Disney launched in Central Florida and then it was pretty clear after the first six months that it was going to be successful . I was able to just sort of ride the wave . So as Disney grew , I was able to assume new positions , greater responsibility . Assume new positions , greater responsibility .

Speaker 2 2:29

So it was just , we were aligned in terms of timing which was really helpful .

Speaker 1 2:32

Well , I think that's so interesting too , because I was talking with Kelly , the CMO of Toast , and one of the things that she told me that really stood out to me was you have to grow faster faster than toast . So you as an employee , as a contributor , need to grow faster than the business , because if we outgrow you , if we are outpacing your growth , then there's not going to be room for you eventually . What are some principles that you've learned and applied that you believe have contributed most to your success and outpacing the growth of Disney ? Because , obviously , if you're constantly put in leadership positions , that means that you're not at the growth or below it . You're ahead of the growth curve and trying to pull people with you . What are some ?

Speaker 2 3:16

of those principles . Well , you definitely . I mean , I think two things happened in my career that were really pivotal . So the first one if you remember , in the late 70s , that would have been right when it was the growth of steak and ale restaurants , binigan's , taverns , houlihan's , all of these places , and so people like myself and where I was in my career , I mean recruiters were everywhere . And so the reality was you had to decide . You could grow faster . You know , I could have been most likely a store manager and then a regional manager and then whatever . But the issue or the question for someone like myself was do you want , is that the vertical you want to be in ? It's a question and it's not a bad one , it's just a choice I had to make , and at that time you know Disney World like every day . It was a new wonder , like how you know who thinks of these things . And yet we did it . And so I chose to be part of that system , that machine , that company , because I believed in what it was doing .

Speaker 2 4:27

That said , there was this really important moment in my career , and it was in the mid-70s . I had been in management maybe for two years . I moved to open a new restaurant in the Disney Springs area of Walt Disney World and after about a year I had an opportunity to get promoted . But the promotion was back in the contemporary hotel on the fourth floor where I had already spent five years . So I had to weigh that out . So what , my process was okay . If I go back to the contemporary , I know the people , I know the operation like the back of my hand , my likelihood of being successful is pretty great . However , the type of table service restaurants that existed on the fourth floor and there was a buffeteria I've already done that , so I'll just be doing more of that .

Speaker 2 5:30

At the same time , disney had already announced Epcot and it was very clear that Epcot was going to have this whole world showcase with all of these amazing restaurants featuring cuisines from other countries .

Speaker 2 5:43

It was going to have a huge catering operation and a lot of entertainment from all over the world . So where I was working had a lounge that had live entertainment . It had a fine dining restaurant , there was a steakhouse , a seafood restaurant and a catering operation . So what I did was say , okay , if I'm looking two years from now when Epcot opens , do I want to be cast and known as somebody who knows casual surface and buffeterias ? Or do I want someone be known as someone who has experience in seafood restaurants , steakhouse bars with live entertainment , catering , fine dining ? Because that in my mind I was going to be qualified for all of them and so I turned down the promotion , and because it was better to build a solid foundation in all of those areas . So then I would be qualified and considered for any opportunity , as opposed to only an opportunity that would happen in casual dining or in buffeterias .

Speaker 1 6:54

Interesting . So it's like you know , and I think that's such an interesting thing because right before we hit record , we were talking about making short-term decisions or long-term decisions . Exactly , we were talking about making short-term decisions or long-term decisions and at times there may be things that are , you know , not beneficial in the short term , that you can see very evidently how it's going to help you in the long run . You call it the shiny object .

Speaker 2 7:16

The shiny object is what you know . You're very focused on that , but and and that's not always bad . So you have to be really careful . And you know when I would speak to groups of cast members I would say you know the way I define that is . Growth isn't always vertical . Sometimes it's important if you're going to build a huge building , you've got to have a really solid foundation before you can go 60 floors up . A really solid foundation before you can go 60 floors up . So . But there are also times where you know what the shiny object is , exactly what it is , and go for it . So I'm not saying one is better than the other . I'm saying make sure you pause long enough to ask yourself and don't just jump at the shiny object .

Speaker 1 8:01

That's a great piece of advice , both with career and business .

Speaker 1 8:05

Because , for example , we may be like that's a great piece of advice , both with career and business Because , for example , we may be like , hey , let's jump on this Back in the day , way back in , like 21 , 2022 , if you can remember , back then people were like , let's all do ghost kitchens , and then everyone was running to do ghost kitchens , to do ghost kitchens , but , and then their , their core product suffered and their core service suffered because they were chasing the wrong , you know the wrong , the wrong end of that stick , and what

Guest Experience and Recovery Tactics

Speaker 1 8:33

?

Speaker 1 8:33

What customers want was not venezuelan food from a chinese restaurant , but what they want is , uh , different channels to order from , and they want to want to know that what they're paying for is exceptional quality , right , right , but a lot of restaurants chased shiny objects , and I think there's right ways to do it and wrong ways to do it , and I think those who took the long-term perspective , like WowBow , they're reaping the rewards and they're still around and they're doing well , and , and they're still around and they're doing , they're doing well and others who took the short term are suffering you know , and so one of the things that's fascinating about disney is just the obsession with guest and the .

Speaker 1 9:19

the guest centricity is better than any other brand in the world , arguably , especially of that scale . So , taking 50 years of experience , let me just ask you a very simple question what's the most important aspect of guest experience ?

Speaker 2 9:40

Your mission is to create happiness . That's why all of us come to work every single day . Our goal is to create happiness . Now , you need to do it safely . You need to do it within parameters that we all have , depending on what our role is . But at the end of the day , a guest comes to the park to be entertained or to a hotel , and our job is to create happiness , create memories with , allow those guests to create memories that they will remember with their friends and family forever . You know , and that's why you know , so many people have fortunately had an experience at a Disney park and , I would argue , for the most part , people talk about it in a very positive way , something that was very important in their lives .

Speaker 1 10:34

And I totally see that and one of the other things is that we've talked about this before but just the the opportunity to recover , right Cause when you're dealing with , like , how many people a month are going through the Disney parks , disney Disneyland or Disney world , I mean at Disney World there's like 200,000 a day .

Speaker 1 10:59

So a day , so 200,000 people having 200,000 unique days , and I mean thousands of attractions and rides and eateries and activities and you're bound to mess something up right every single day , uh , multiple times a day . When you multiply all that out and you have literally tens , hundreds of millions of experiences every single day , you're bound to mess it up . But one of the things that we've talked about before was just making it right and the power that that has , and do you want to talk a little bit about that ?

Speaker 2 11:43

Yeah , I mean we work really hard to empower the cast . So because there's nobody who can be better , faster and more sincere and genuine than the person who's standing in front of the guests , so that cast member has the first opportunity and the quickest opportunity . So we need to make sure that they are trained , that they feel confident in what they can do . It's important to listen to the guests , make sure you understand . You know exactly what the issue is , but you know there are simple things . Where a child buys an ice cream cone , turns around and bumps into their brother or sister , the ice cream cone falls on the ground . You know that's an immediate here's another one it's okay , kind of thing .

Speaker 2 12:36

Nobody's going to count the number of cones and hold the you know cast member liable . The tougher things are you're behind on your seating , okay , because Disney restaurants , as you know from experience , can be very busy , very full . So even where you try to make sure that you know your templates are set properly for reservations , you don't know that maybe one table is there , for whatever reason , it's just taking longer to turn . Meanwhile you're standing out there with your family and you're ready to eat and you have a reservation at this time , but the cast member can't cause the table to drop out of the air , you know . So that's when it's .

Speaker 2 13:21

You know , can we do something ? Can we entertain ? Do you need to have a toolkit ? And that's what we do . So maybe there's a character set taking place somewhere in the vicinity . We arrange for that family to go and be able to experience that . Or maybe there's , if there's a specialty drink that's served it doesn't have to be an alcoholic drink , just something that would be special you offer that . But bottom line , what you don't do is just say I'm sorry , your table's not ready and then just leave them standing there .

Speaker 1 13:56

So that's a and that's going to get into the next question of like tactics . I think having that's a really interesting idea , george , of like , having that playbook of tactics where you can your staff knows these are things that are pre-approved to do , they're in there in your , in your power to do and think , you know , tim , uh , tim ferris would talk about how , if there's a certain , he used to have all um issues bubbled up to management and then he finally set a limit and said look , you have the power to fix anything up to x dollars , whatever that takes x dollars is you . Now if you want to go up , you will set it at y dollars , up , we'll set it at z dollars . But like , I think that that having that playbook is really uh , is a powerful idea of that .

Speaker 2 14:46

That guest recovery playbook , any other tactics that you would recommend to improve the guest experience no , I mean , I think you if , first of all , it all goes back to the training , right ? So you need to make sure that the cast member understands that it's their , their job , their responsibility to make sure that the guest is enjoying themselves . So and we're going to empower you here's the tools that you have , but you need to . First of all , we need to have hired the right person . We need to have trained them so that they understand hospitality , because one of the things in the industry right now that's the toughest is during COVID , restaurants , as you know , took it harder than many industries , and so now trying to hire back thousands and thousands of new employees and get them trained is not easy , and so everybody is struggling with that , and so we need , though , to make sure that everybody is trained , and they have to feel good about , and confident about , what they're doing out there . There's nothing worse than throwing somebody onto a floor in a busy restaurant and they're not prepared . That's a terrifying thing . Especially if you've ever been a server , it's the worst . They need to feel great about what's coming out of that kitchen , and if they don't , they're not that that feeling is going to transfer immediately to how they take care of the guests . You can bet on it . So it's an ecosystem and you have to make sure that the whole ecosystem is healthy .

Speaker 2 16:29

And if you so , part of the bag of tricks is what does the cast member have ? But you also the chef and the team working in the kitchen . They have to have the ability . If somebody wants something prepared without this ingredient or whatever . I mean , there's nothing worse than a chef who says this is my recipe and this is how this item is going to be served . Okay , that's fine , but then that's not really . You know , if you're not making the guest happy , we understand that that item may not taste the same without this ingredient , but the vast majority of people are ordering your recipe this one person , and so I mean those are the kinds of things and if the employee feels like they're going to have to do bevel in the kitchen , they're going to tell the guest I'm sorry , we have no change . That's not going to happen . You know , that's how it works .

Speaker 1 17:25

Yeah , it's getting to that culture . I like what you said in the beginning of hiring the right people , because it's so much easier to train on processes and hire for personality than someone who's good at the processes and doesn't have the personality Right .

Speaker 2 17:41

And I think most of you know I mean the reality is , at Disney we always talk about just treat the guests like you would want to be treated . If you're going out to a restaurant , how do you want to feel ? You know you want to feel like somebody is glad you're there . You want somebody to feel like they're happy to help you have a wonderful experience , a wonderful meal . They want you to enjoy the food . I mean all of these kinds of things . That part is not so difficult . But what has happened is , in this rush to hire and get servers or quick service employees back in these operations , the transactional piece we've got that because you have to do it . But it's that whole hospitality , that idea , and they have to go . They're together . You can't separate the two . So if somebody is serving you but they're not smiling and they're not exuding a feeling that they really care whether you like that food or not , they're serving you the food , the food is hot , but then you never see them again . It's not really a great experience .

Speaker 1 19:18

Exactly

Customer Service Excellence and Cultural Appreciation

Speaker 1 19:19

, yeah , and I think that is so . That's so key . I just went to one of my favorite restaurants Well , it was at favorite dessert shops the other day and the , the woman behind the counter , it was as if I were asking her to like put my dog down when I'm trying to get a cinnamon roll Right , and I was , my whole family was there . We were so excited to get it . We literally made a , a trip just just to go to this cinnamon roll spot . And she , I mean , like could not ? We got into the car afterwards and I was like man , I'm like I feel bad that we like put her out . You know , like , yeah , we were really inconveniencing her , you know , um , but yeah , I like that idea of like the , the and that personality . I think that's so amazing .

Speaker 2 19:39

And I think also being able to anticipate .

Speaker 1 19:42

I mean they had an opportunity .

Speaker 2 19:44

That employee had an opportunity because it was probably pretty clear your whole family was there and they were all really excited about this moment . So you could have taken in the same amount of time , that same transaction and made it something that everybody talked about for the rest of the day as well . As you share it with your friends , they share it with their friends , and then everybody wants to go to this place .

Speaker 1 20:09

Exactly .

Speaker 2 20:11

So that's how it works , as you know .

Speaker 1 20:14

Yes , 100% . Now , george , who is someone that deserves an ovation ? Who is someone that we should be following ? Someone that you know shares a lot of good insights ?

Speaker 2 20:26

I think one of the things that I've observed in the last year these not part of big groups , but these one-offs are doing some amazing things . So last week , for example , I was in a hotel in Washington DC and we ordered . There were two of us and we ordered . We were going to share an appetizer , so the appetizer was , uh , deviled eggs with caviar on the top awesome and however they come , there's three halves , three deviled eggs , so the server said the portion that is served is three .

Speaker 2 21:14

I'm sure that's going to be a little bit difficult for you to decide who gets the second lady and tramp a devil .

Speaker 2 21:20

She said I'd be happy to add another one if you'd like another half , so you won't have to . I mean she did that out of her own . I mean that's what it looks like . She knew like why put it ? Why put a guest in a situation where they're having to ? And , as she could tell , in my case it was a business meeting . So it's somebody I don't even really know that well . So that's even worse . You know , when you're in those kinds of situations , she picked right up on it , she offered it was perfect . So I mean those .

Speaker 2 21:53

There's a hotel in Stockholm . There's a hotel in Stockholm and if you look at it , I think it was rated the best hotel in the world last year small hotel , it's called Etem in Stockholm and you go in etz , hem means the house . So and it is three houses , that are all I mean they are just they're lodging . Now you eat in the kitchen . You eat breakfast , lunch and dinner in the kitchen , like you would eat in somebody's home , and so the chef has these are the items that he has prepared that everybody can have . But tell me what you want and I'll make it and that's .

Speaker 2 22:37

And so I mean , who does that ? Now ? Can you do that on the scale at every place , of course not , and chain restaurants and things where you need consistency , and all . No , but what I would say , one of the things that I hope your listeners will remember of anything I did in my 50 years , it was creating a network , getting out , observe , learn , because the world is a big place and there are great concepts everywhere , in every city , every country and so but you have to go see them , you know , you have to touch them , you have to feel them , you have to experience it , and then that's how you then come back and share things with your teams that maybe , in fact , you say we're actually doing it better , but at least now we know what our competition is . Conversely , you could come back with an idea that like , wow , you know , you never would have thought of that , but now that you've seen it in place , you can introduce it in your operation .

Speaker 1 23:44

I love that . Yeah , it's so much about finding the best of and bringing back the essence of the best of . You know , a lot of people will say there's this , the cry of cultural appropriation is often out there , but there's a certain , there's a blend of cultural appreciation , right when you don't you're not stealing something , but you're appreciating it and you're acknowledging . And that's one of the things I love about traveling .

Speaker 1 24:10

I've been to 50 countries , you've probably been to more , but every country I go to I love to see what they call normal , because there's so much beauty in every single country that I've been to that I have brought into my life , even from little phrases that I say to decor in the house , to you know , different habits that we have as individuals , as a family , because of the richness , of the beauty of other cultures . And I think that you can do the same thing with other restaurants , other hotels , and I love that idea , george . Yeah , now where can people go to learn more ? If they want to , if they want to follow , they want to follow you , where can they go ?

Speaker 2 24:51

people go to learn more if they want to , if they want to follow uh , they want to follow you . Where can they go ? Well , they can follow me on linkedin . That's , um , that's I . I do and actually I post things . I'm fortunate to be on a couple of non-profit boards and if I'm doing something or experiencing something , I'll post it there . But the disney parks vlog is also a great site , um , there are , you know , lots of new and innovative things always happening in the Disney parks , and you can follow the blog and you'll learn all about it .

Speaker 1 25:20

Awesome , all right , george Curveball question . Okay , you ready Right before we end . Who is the most underrated Disney character ?

Speaker 2 25:33

Well underrated Disney character . Well , personally , Eeyore is someone that I have always admired .

Speaker 1 25:45

Oh , interesting .

Speaker 2 25:46

If you watch Eeyore when he is out engaging with guests , you'll see that everybody wants to make sure Eeyore is okay . Everybody comes up to Eeyore when he is out engaging with guests . You'll see that everybody wants to make sure Eeyore is okay . Everybody comes up to Eeyore . It's going to be all right Eeyore . So he can sometimes be a little bit of a sad sack , but he's also one that he gets people's hearts and they all want to make sure Eeyore is okay . So I always loved watching that in the park . So I'd say maybe Eeyore's a little bit underrated .

Speaker 1 26:12

Oh , I love that . Interesting Cool . I think you learn a lot about people when you talk about Disney . You know Well , George , for showing us the right way to create happiness with a sprinkle of magic . Today's ovation goes to you . Thank you for joining us on . Give an Ovation . Thanks , Zach . Thanks for joining us today . Give an Ovation . Thanks , Zach . Thanks for joining us today . If you liked this episode , leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen . We're all about feedback here . Again , this episode was sponsored by Ovation , a two-question , SMS-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants . If you'd like to learn how we can help you ,