Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast is your backstage pass to the minds of hospitality leaders, innovators, and operators who are redefining what it means to serve. Hosted by Zack Oates, founder of Ovation, each episode dives into real-world tactics and inspiring stories from restaurant pros who know how to create five-star guest experiences—both in-store and off-premise.
From fast casual to fine dining, catering to curbside, learn how to drive loyalty, empower your staff, and deliver hospitality that hits home. Whether you're a restaurant owner, operator, marketer, or tech partner, this podcast will leave you with practical insights and plenty of reasons to celebrate and Give an Ovation.
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Unveiling the Recipe for Restaurant Expansion with Gus Malliaras
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Get ready to feast on some delicious insights as we sit down with Gus Malliaris, the genius behind Detroit Wing Company and its rise from a singular location to 31 thriving branches. We unwrap the secrets behind Gus's success underscoring the power of customer experience in the restaurant game.
On this episode, you'll learn from Gus about:
- Leader by example
- Handling multiple locations
- Instilling passion in employees
- More!
Thanks, Gus!
Customer Experience in the Restaurant Industry
Speaker 1Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation , the restaurant guest experience podcast , where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five star guest experience . This podcast is sponsored by Ovation , a two-question SMS-based real-time guest feedback platform that helps restaurants measure and improve their guest experience . Learn more at ovationupcom . And today we've got a guy that I met on a food crawl .
Speaker 2When was that Gus ? It was at FS Tech just three , four weeks ago .
Speaker 1That's right . Fs Tech . We do a food crawl , as I do with my good friend Rev . We do that most trade shows that we go to and I met this guy named Gus Malaris and we started chatting about guest experience . He's the president and founder of Detroit Wing Company and I was so impressed and just so clued in to the fact that Gus gets guest experience Like that should be a T-shirt and so I was like man and we had such a good conversation and I was like dude , we should have just hit record and that podcast . I know Gus was like man , that was great . We should have just said that was it .
Speaker 2It's because you said the magic words .
Speaker 1Yeah right . So , Gus , I'm so excited to have you on . Thanks for being on Give it Ovation . And for those who aren't familiar with Detroit Wing Company , maybe you want to give a little explanation about it .
Speaker 2Yeah , so we started in 2015 , opened our first door . We are now up to 31 locations . Just chicken wings is our specialty . We make all of our sauces from scratch , all of our own recipes , almost everything on the menu is from scratch .
Speaker 1So really , just Omaha right , say it again You're based in Omaha , right yeah ?
Speaker 2Really just . We started with just that focus on doing one thing and trying to do it better than anyone else . My intentions at the beginning were not to have 31 units accounting .
Speaker 2I just wanted that one location , that's all I wanted Wasn't till probably about 2017 when I even considered a second location . So the intent at the beginning was pretty humble . I just wanted to make good food and take care of my customers . And it caught on and spread pretty quickly . I always tell I was at these very similar conversations of like how did the company start and that kind of stuff and I always tell the story of the restaurant that I had previous to Detroit Wing Company . You know it was a full 100 and something item menu , very much like a diner . Everything was made from scratch , too much for too little right . And when I got engaged I was like man , it's just , I don't want to be that typical like restaurant owner that's never home and you know work in the line , and so the idea for Detroit Wing Company was just to do something simple and just do that one item . But while I was there once I made this decision with probably about two years left on my lease and as soon as I made up my mind , I mean I was 100% Detroit Wing Company and I was just kind of going through the motions at that point . But I was using that restaurant as a contest kitchen the regulars would come in . I'm back there making wings and I'm giving wings away to get feedback and all that kind of stuff . Nobody in our corporate office ever came to that restaurant or really knows that story outside of me telling it . So I had an interview for a potential franchisee a few days ago and the guy's a Navy veteran . He moved down to Florida but he's from Michigan and him and his buddy , who was gonna be the operating partner where I sit down at the meeting and come to find out they were customers at my previous restaurant and I mean the meetings started off with him telling my story . Basically I remember we'd come in . He's like you would always stay at that front counter and you would take such good care of us you would always give away food . I almost fell out of my chair , I was . I turned to the rest of our corporate team and I was like see , like I'm not making this up , like this is someone literally telling you the story that I'd been saying for how long now it was just it was really cool to see that come full circle , but it was all . It was nice to see kind of that impression that the hospitality made on them and he just happened to live in the city where our first DWC opened and after I closed my previous restaurant and he just wandered into DWC one day and he's like shit . He's like you're standing right at the front counter again . He's like just doing what you do , and so for that reason he fell in love with the brand and now wants to open his own . And for me , I mean , that's the kind of stuff that to see a come full circle like that was a really cool feeling .
Speaker 2From the way I started , how I got involved in the business , my great grandfather actually opened a restaurant in Greek town in Detroit in 1898 , I wanna say and my grandfather grew up working there and he went off to World War II . He was a teenager and when he came back the restaurant was kind of , but he was just , he fell into it . He didn't choose it , that's just what he did when he got back . And so I spent a lot of time as a kid working there with him through my teenage years and into my twenties and I fell in love with the restaurant business . I love to cook , don't get me wrong .
Speaker 2The food side of it is definitely a passion as well , but I fell in love with the hospitality side of the business , being in a restaurant with such a long history .
Speaker 2I'd stand up with that front counter with him and talk to customers who met there when they were in college or had their first date there and then got married there and then baptized their kids there , and just these generations of stories and I would just sit and watch him in Iraq with his customers . And he had it down to a science . I say he didn't choose the restaurant business , it's just what was there for him at the time . But he was definitely a people person and just watching the way he made people feel what for me was the biggest kind of influence and how I take care of my customers . I , you know , at this point he was in his probably late seventies and couldn't remember half the people he was talking to but they had no idea . I mean he had it down to a science and every single person would walk away from a conversation with him just feeling like blown away that he remembered them and it's just such a cool thing to watch and to see how happy they made people .
Speaker 1So I yeah , I remember we were chatting about that about how people want to feel heard , they want to feel seen , they want to feel like they belong , and the thing I say in all of my training sessions I do is people want to feel important .
Speaker 2It's really what they want to feel , and I'd even go a step further today , the way , the way the industry is and just say they just even want to be acknowledged . Yeah . The low bar is just .
Speaker 1And I get that and you get that and the people listening to this podcast get that . But , gus , how do you do that at 31 and counting locations ? Like , how do you get your people to do that when it's not their name , it's not their brand , it's not their sweat and blood and tears , it's ?
Speaker 2tough . I try to have as many one-on-one conversations as I can with a lot of our staff . We've crossed the stores and we have probably close to 300 store-level employees and with turnover the way it is , it's definitely a tough thing to do . But you can see pretty quickly . At least when I walk into a restaurant I can tell pretty quickly people either care about it or they don't , and to some degree not even I want to say care about it , but just understand it . I guess Some people naturally just are more outgoing and they interact with Gus . Naturally they don't have to try , they just kind of know what to say and they can kind of read body language .
Speaker 2For others , especially some of the younger staff , it's a challenge . The in-person conversations are more and more limited . For a lot of them Text messaging and video games , and they didn't grow up with as much of those personal connections as a lot of us did . So it can be harder with some . But I think as long as that person cares and they have an interest in it , it's a genuine thing . It's either you can't really force it . They either want to or they don't . And I think when they have that interest in it it's pretty easy to kind of get them excited about it and show them just kind of the little things to look for , and once they start getting some response from customers , it just kind of snowballs from there .
Speaker 1And that is something Tim Ferriss talks about that a lot in his book I remember well in all of his books . But he talks about how , when you empower someone your staff to make somebody else's day better , not only are they happier , but their guest is happier Right , absolutely , and so I think that's a big key to it . But you and I were also speaking of good books . We're talking about unreasonable hospitality Yep and this concept of making it cool to care Yep , Right . What are some things that you would recommend to restaurants to help their staff feel like it's cool to care ?
Speaker 2You got to lead by example first and foremost . Anytime I'm in a restaurant I love just I kind of gravitate to the cashier station and I'll always jump in on conversations and just kind of ask those follow up questions and really kind of engage with the guest . Sometimes cashiers are kind of looking me like I'm crazy , like where did you come from , but sometimes you see they really kind of pick up on it and you know it's the guy . You're in this business and you're seeing hundreds of people a day . Just take a few seconds . They have that connection with them and especially if they're repeat customers and you know , for me at least , it's the best part of the business . So how often are you ?
Speaker 1in the stores .
Speaker 2As much as I'd like to anymore At one point I would try to visit every single store . I try to at least hit one store a day . I'm in the office more these days , but whenever I have free time I try to get to a restaurant .
Speaker 1Wow , and is that something that you like ? Prioritizing your schedule , because with 31 locations , I mean that's tough man .
Speaker 2It is . It's always a priority . Unfortunately , things in the office are a priority too , but you know , again .
Speaker 2if I have a day that's open , I'll try and actively block off days of my calendar just so I can be on the road . We open a store in Tampa about a year ago and I'll just I'll randomly hop on a flight and go down there , even a day trip , a flying in the morning , fly back at night , that's . That's my passion . I mean , I love being in in the stores and having that connection . I can sit in my office and look at spreadsheets and reports all day , but it doesn't give me the same kind of insight if I , unless I'm inside those four walls . I love that .
Speaker 1So what do you think is one of the most important aspects of guest experience nowadays ?
Speaker 2I just just , you know , finding a way to make the guests feel special . You know , whatever . One of the things that we talked about FSTAC was the digital hospitality , right ? Yeah , as as that experience has changed so much and customers are more and more going to online ordering , app ordering , and they're they're slowly taking their minimizing that interaction to . You know , it used to be . They had to walk in or call you , have that conversation with them and then they pick up , and now sometimes you're lucky to get just a few seconds or a hand in the order . So , trying to try to find ways to still give them that experience and to still feel like you know who they are in that , that limited interaction , is this for me , probably one of the biggest things , that one of my kind of one of the things that I'm trying to do as best as we can and find find ways to do better .
Building an Iconic Brand With Operators
Speaker 1Because all of your stores right now are corporate right .
Speaker 2No , no , we have a handful corporate stores , some that I own personally , and the rest are franchised .
Speaker 1Got it . So what's your mix of corporate and franchise ?
Speaker 2So the ones that I own personally are technically franchised ? Yeah , so one formal corporate store is full corporate than my stores , and then 25 franchised .
Speaker 1Got it Cool and are you ? Are you looking to grow that ? Are you looking to add more franchisees ?
Speaker 2Yes , yeah , we're definitely we . We grew a lot last year , so we're still kind of catching up with ourselves . I'm more of a slow , steady kind of guy and really for me , the biggest priority is finding operators that are like minded that the value hospitality side of it . I've always people always ask me the question like , how many stores do you want ? And there's not really a number . For me it's more . What I know for sure is that I want to build an iconic brand and to do that you can have an iconic brand with one location . You could have several hundred , but it depends on the operators and having that same culture and the same values . So you know , if you gave me the choice of opening 500 stores over the next two years or 100 . And with the difference being the hundred were passionate operators that saw hospitality the way I do , I'd go with the hundred all day .
Speaker 1Amen , love that . So so , getting to the tactics of guest experience , I think this is going to be an interesting one , especially since you've got some . You own some corporate , some franchise . What are some tactics that you've used to improve the guest experience ?
Speaker 2Trying to find ways to give the store operators those pieces of information that I would use if I was in a store to to recognize a customer Right . Like you know , back when we only had the one store I was able to , you know I had time to go and look up their tickets and see what the order history was and acknowledge them , or or I just knew them because I saw them and I recognized them and I knew who my regulars were and it was easy to have that connection . We try to get our operators to to look into those things as much as they can and just really know their customers and their data . But we're definitely looking for for tools to help that . You know I was looking at Ovation site just a couple of days ago .
Speaker 2There was something on there about a manager touch and kind of all these things that go out through my mind that I that I wish we could find a way to implement .
Speaker 2But when I think of like manager touch , I think of obviously , manager going by a table where maybe it's a regular or for whatever reason that customer needs some acknowledgement .
Speaker 2You know , if we had a way to get those types of notes on our KDS in the kitchen where you know , or expo in an order . The person bagging that order knows that , hey , this is a long time customer , or it's their birthday , or it's their anniversary , all of those kind of major D type details that that the best restaurants know about their customers , trying to find a way to put that on a screen in our stores so that it's right there in front of them and we can just teach them how to use those tools , but just just getting the information in front of them so they know who they're dealing with . This is important , especially with with multiple locations . It could be their first time going to one specific location but then maybe they've been to the other ones and we don't want that customer being treated as if they're first time customer . Not that they would be treated badly , but you know I'm saying we want them to still feel as special , as you know , that loyal customer that they are , and not revert to a first time customer .
Speaker 1Yeah , 100% , because that's all part of getting to know a guest . Right , getting to know someone . And we don't . We don't have those fancy role that Rolodex of cards that make you be would keep . But the nice thing is that , because so much is digitized , you could do that in the digital way and you could do that automatically . Right , like you may have never had a personal interaction with somebody who orders online with you , but yet you know technology can tell you this is a top 10% customer . They've spent $1000 with you in the last three months . They come in every four days and like that's , that's the beauty of giving context .
Speaker 1Yeah , because a lot of times , especially when it comes to feedback there's , there's times that other tools , they just they give you an email address that you need to like respond to this guest who filled out this 50 question survey . But like , who is that guest ? How often come in ? Have they complained before ? Have they left you reviews before ? Have ? So all of these things go into understanding that guest and making sure that Gus feels special when he comes in or when he has to say about you know Zach Schach burgers , right ? Yep , absolutely Love that . So who's someone who deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry . Who's someone that we should be following .
Speaker 2So I'm going to point to my business partner , my Joe from beyond juice . So you met him briefly at fs doc , but he's a guy that you know . We've only been doing business together for a couple years now but it's it's pretty rare to find someone that has that same kind of hospitality , first view of the business . And he's background I mean he spent some time as a bartender and you know he gets it , he had , he knows people in that same way and people are our purpose is kind of his slogan , that for beyond juice , that that they live by and it's it's just nice to have somebody in the same office that that has that same view . And you know him and I also his conversations sometimes and we've decided it should be a podcast .
Speaker 1But I hey , I'd listen to that man , so I do it . And , gus , what do we learn more about Detroit Wing Company , and is there any social media that you use to post your musings ?
Speaker 2Yep , we're on Facebook to Tret Winko , on Instagram at the Tret Winko Tic Tac , although we don't we haven't gotten too active on that yet but all the normal social media platforms and obviously Detroit Winkocom .
Speaker 1Awesome . Well , gus , for helping hospitality fly even higher with Detroit Wing Company . Today's ovation goes to you . Thank you for joining us on give innovation .
Speaker 2Absolutely Thanks , Zach .
Speaker 1Thanks for joining us today . If you like this episode , leave us a review on Apple podcasts or your favorite place to listen . We're all about feedback here . Again , this episode was sponsored by Ovation , a two question SMS based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi unit restaurants . If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience , visit us at ovation upcom .