Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast is your backstage pass to the minds of hospitality leaders, innovators, and operators who are redefining what it means to serve. Hosted by Zack Oates, founder of Ovation, each episode dives into real-world tactics and inspiring stories from restaurant pros who know how to create five-star guest experiences—both in-store and off-premise.
From fast casual to fine dining, catering to curbside, learn how to drive loyalty, empower your staff, and deliver hospitality that hits home. Whether you're a restaurant owner, operator, marketer, or tech partner, this podcast will leave you with practical insights and plenty of reasons to celebrate and Give an Ovation.
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Behind the Scenes of a Successful Restaurant Experience with Donna Josephson
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Ever wonder how top restaurant brands create a guest experience that keeps customers coming back for more? Prepare to be enlightened as we sit down with Donna Josephson, CMO of Shipley's Donuts, a seasoned marketer who has worked with big names such as Chick-fil-A, Applebee's, Wendy's, and McAllister's. Donna lays bare the common pitfalls marketers often stumble into in the restaurant industry and emphasises the vital role of a partnership between marketers and operators in delivering a memorable guest experience.
On this episode, you'll learn from Donna about:
- Addressing diverse needs of guests
- Importance of emotional connection
- Rapid innovation
- More!
Thanks, Donna!
Improving the Restaurant Guest Experience
Speaker 1Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation , the restaurant guest experience podcast , where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five star guest experience . This podcast is sponsored by Ovation , a two-question SMS-based real-time guest feedback platform that helps restaurants measure and improve their guest experience . Learn more at ovationupcom and today's episode . I'm really excited because we have Donna Josephson on . Donna , how are you ?
Speaker 2I'm great . How about you ?
Speaker 1I'm doing so well and I'm so excited that you're on , donna , because you have some incredible experience . If you don't know who Donna is like , go look her up right now and follow her , because she's a rock star , cmo of Shipley's Donuts and she is not just like a one-trick pony doing awesome marketing stuff with Shipley's . I mean , prior she was at marketing for Chick-fil-A , applebee's , wendy's , mcallister's , fizzoli's , quarter Bakery , and you have just had a phenomenal career . And let's just get this out of the way . Right in the front , donna .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1What are marketers getting wrong in the restaurant industry ?
Speaker 2Oh , what are we getting wrong ? I don't know if all marketers are getting it wrong . I mean , for the longest time we were marketers always had that bad rap of pushing things forward and not providing a very good guest experience because we ran things through and not really partnering well with our operators . And I think it's still , I still . I think it's easy for us to to not always put the guest first and then sometimes our guest is also those operators who have to learn what we're trying to do and what we're trying to accomplish .
Speaker 1So that's a great point , how your guest is the operator . Talk to me more about that .
Speaker 2Well , I mean , if we are thinking about , like , from a marketing position or anything else , it's a support function , right , Our job is to is to drive sales and traffic and the operator's job is to keep it . But if I create programs that an operator cannot possibly execute and give a great , you know , guest experience , what's the point ? Right ?
Speaker 1If .
Speaker 2I can't communicate it if training can't train it . So a lot of times , as we build our neat fancy , you know wang bang , ideas , you know we think , are the greatest thing around there Do you use a technical MBA term ?
Speaker 2Yes , yes , let's have fun with it , it's not fun , it's . You know , you gotta always have fun . But we have all these great ideas and then we , you know , if we don't really vet them through ops and really partner and learn how we can make them the best experience for the guest and make sure that they can deliver , or we make things too hard . You know , and the same goes with any kind of new technology , right ? Our IT partners , anything we build , we've got to be able to partner with IT .
Speaker 2And so , you know , today's world is really more about knowing who your guest is , and not just your in-consumer , but your internal guests that also have to execute your programs and take care of that in-consumer as well . So I just think , as much as we partner and work cross-functionally , it's always good sometimes to dial back and remember you know , we've got internal customers , so a lot of us have franchisees . Those are also customers and you know , as a leader of an organization , your employees are the customer . So in any given situation , the hierarchy of who the customer is before it gets to your in-consumer could be a little bit different . So it's always good to think about that and I just don't think you can ask people to deliver a great guest experience if you're not giving them one .
Speaker 1I think that is so powerful . And Doghouse , one of a favorite brand of mine , cg Ramiro , is over there . He believes in something called Markerations right , where you have marketing and operations , and they have a Markerations meeting a couple times a week because they also believe that you have to stay in tandem . The best marketing in the world actually does harm if it's setting the wrong expectations . That's right , because if the execution can't come through with it , it's all about those expectations , right . And so how do you find that balance between striving to do better and to push for better and also being realistic of what are my part-time employees going to be able to produce ?
Speaker 2Yeah , Like I look at those beautiful pictures right behind you , right . Yeah , I know , I think right .
Speaker 1Yeah , and if I go into a shipyard and they don't look like that and they look really bad and they're stale , which there's another donut place where I stopped going because every single time I went in the donuts were stale and on their marketing they look so soft and fluffy , and then you get there and it's just like ugh , like how do you strike that balance , though , of not selling stale donuts ? Yeah ?
Speaker 2Well , that's just not allowed , Okay .
Speaker 1That one's easy .
Speaker 2No , no , stale donuts , but no , I think it's important through a testing process and it's also important to listen .
Speaker 2So a lot of times we'll put things , whether it's here at Shipley or in my past life you know you're developing something and the very first line is you know the operators , you know you've already done your homework on costing and you make sure that you can get it from supply chain . But the very first thing you've got to do and you know that guests want it you go out and I remember we put a we called it gosh . What did we call it ? Anyway , it was a speed to market plan and we said you know , we're not going to spend all this time , you know testing . Now we're going to go in on low risk things and we're going to spend three to five days rapid we called it rapid innovation and it was a partner Jim Doak actually brought it to me culinary partner at another brand and anyway he said you know , just go in and listen , listen to the operators , work alongside the operators and then you can see where you're giving them a hard time .
Speaker 2Whether it's a sandwich that's too complicated to build , you know it's an SKU that has too much liquid runoff , you know it makes a soggy sandwich . Or in the donut world , you know , maybe you created an icing that is just too difficult to work with , that doesn't give a great product , you know . So , whatever the case may be , these are the people who are delivering on it every day and you have to be able to , you know , put it in their shops , stand alongside them , watch , watch where you cause the pain , and then listen and then go back and just don't slough it off . I think that's the other thing . A lot of times you're like well , you know , they just don't want to .
Speaker 1Oh yeah .
Speaker 2You know we have to listen to people . You know find solutions for things .
Speaker 1Right , and because listening that's what relationships are all about , and we need to build great relationships with our guests and with our franchisees , because , especially if you have a lower ticket value right , if you're not a fine dining restaurant it's like how can you afford hand-to-hand combat ? Well , the answer is how could you not afford to Like ? You have to be able to listen , you have to be able to win those guests back , because it really does center around the guest experience and that's something that , as I've heard you speak and I've seen your trade shows , you know that guest experience is critical , so I'd love to get your thoughts on what do you think the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays is ?
Speaker 2Oh gosh . Well , you know I think it's changed , but it really hasn't . So I've been in this industry for quite a while . Let me explain what I mean by that . So I think the guest is looking for the ultimate inconvenience . They want what they want , when they want it , how they want it , and they always want it in a convenient way for them . And that's really not much different than when I first started my career . It's just the technology has changed . So many ways have changed to service the guest right now , and I think it's interesting for us , especially in the restaurant industry .
Speaker 2But I think the guests want a frictionless experience . You know , if today I want to order diet , you know I just want to walk in your shop . You know I want to walk in the shop , I want to peruse the donut rack . I want to decide I don't really know what I want , and that's how they want to use you today . Or they want to come with their kids and it's Donut Friday and they want to let the kids pick whatever they want .
Speaker 2That's the occasion for that day . There may be another day where you know they're headed to church and they need you to have six dozen ready because the choir is hungry , so they may order online and they're just going to swing through and pick it up , or they may even order to have it delivered . Every single guest has different occasions . We all do , we all have different circumstances , and I think they want to be able to utilize brands in any way they can . So I think for us providing that opportunity if they need a quick delivery , if they want to come in and make it an experience and a memory for a child or for another friend , if they want to have it delivered to their car or if they want to go through a drive-thru , you have to be finding ways to deliver a seamless and frictionless experience in the convenience in which the guest wants it .
Speaker 1I will keep going .
Speaker 2Yes , Again with accuracy . That's the other thing . So once you take their eyeballs off because if you're picking the order wrong . There was another brand through my career that always got these great scores on accuracy . I was like , of course they do If they're doing it wrong . The guest is watching them build the sandwich as they walk online . What guest is going to say wait till the end to say yeah , well , I didn't order those .
Speaker 1Yeah , no , no .
Speaker 2Palo penos , but you have to give accuracy and be thoughtful for the guest . So , anyway , I think that's super important right now and I think it's going to continue . But I really don't think that's any different exact than where we were way back in the day , which I don't want to date myself , but I was working for a brand where we were like you know what , we got to figure out how to do curbside to go and we got to deliver the product right to the consumer's car . These busy sucker moms , they need it delivered right to their car . And we were like , yeah , it's all about convenience , it still is .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , and when I look at it , I do a session as I go around and do these talks around the country , and one of the things I talk about is the ladder of loyalty , and the first rung , if you want to the ante to play , is all about convenience
Emotional Guest Experience With Convenience
Speaker 1. You have to be convenient or you don't even get a shot at the table , right . But then that next rung up to your point of accuracy , I think in a broader scope right , it's about consistency , because if I go one time and it's good , I go another time and it's bad . I go one time and it's accurate , another time and it's not , then I'm going to start going someplace else , and those are things that are able to build a good business .
Speaker 1And I look at the very top rung , right , there's the convenience , there's the consistency , and then , to really take it over the top , it's about connection . It's about how people feel , because I could get a burger in a lot of places . I can get a chicken sandwich a lot of places , but there's only one place where I go in to get a chicken sandwich and they actually make me feel like I care . There's only one place where I go in to get a chicken sandwich , and it's not 86 every other time , right Like , and I think that's an important factor there . So love that learning there , donna .
Speaker 2And I think it's a struggle too for brands to . I've talked about this through drive-through experiences , right , and how do you get 60% , 70% of a lot of QSR ? It goes through the drive-through .
Speaker 2And now online ordering ramping up , you just continue to see the numbers going and so you know when a guest comes in and you get that human interaction . You could really deliver on that emotional connection . But I think now one of the things that we've got to pay a lot of attention to is how are we delivering that emotional connection ? You get that final experience right Through the drive-through or the beginning when you place your order , if it's not AI already , and then you also have that experience when the order is handed out the window . But now it's getting so fast it may just be simply that a handout right . So how do you start delivering on that emotional connection and through technology and I think that's something I don't know the answer to that . I think that's something we're all looking for , to make sure that we're delivering on it .
Speaker 1That's a great point . I totally agree with you on that , and let's chat afterwards , but I think that so , talking about the guest experience , I mean we've talked philosophically . I love what you're talking about with the convenience and the accuracy . What about from a tactical standpoint ? Is there any tactics , any recommendations that you'd give any secrets out of your playbook ? In terms of like , here's a great way to improve the guest experience .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think you understand , first of all , understanding your guests and what it is that they want and how they're utilizing your brand , and then I think every brand is different , every brand I've worked at so far I mean I've been very blessed to work at all those brands you mentioned earlier but every single one of them had different challenges and the guest experience was a little different at each one of them . Some things exactly the same . So I would say , first of all , understand your guests , understand where their pain points are and then go about solving for those . Currently , I work at 87 , we just turned 87 . This was our birthday week .
Speaker 2So , 87 years old Chiply Donis a legacy brand , but this is also a brand that when we say we have drive-throughs , we have drive-ups , you drive up to the window and you tell them what you want through a window , without an ordering system . There was no POS even just a year and a half ago . So I guess my playbook changes by the brand because it's very brand specific and it's very you know how the guest interacts with this brand . It kind of goes back to our previous comment , right ? How do you make that emotional connection with the people that is relevant for your brand , that makes you feel special ? I think there's some things that all guests want , but I also think they have some expectations of each individual brand . So I think it varies .
Speaker 1I think that's really fair because you know the same thing that works at the one brand is going to work at the other , and there are some universal things , there's some universal theories and principles , but at the end of the day , it's like , I think , that the concept of listening , like you've talked about numerous times it just that's the key that you know to deliver , you need to know what the address is right and to get the emotional address you got to ask . And what I'm finding in all the research that we're doing is that people are open . Yes , they have their privacy concerns , but they are open to connection . They're open to that discussion , that dialogue , as have Danny Meyer's book right on my shelf behind me , right , hospitality is a dialogue of what he says in there , and they're open to that , but you can't harass them for that . So I think that's a really good point about listening . So who deserves Novation in the restaurant industry , donna ? Who's someone that we should be following ?
Speaker 2Well , a group that I think is super cool . I don't work with them right now , but I wish I did was . I think QPOS is doing some pretty cool stuff .
Speaker 1Oh my gosh . Okay , we love Q at Ovation and I had someone tell me one time . They said you know , I've been in this industry for decades and no one ever talks about how much they love their point of sale . She's like but I love .
Speaker 2Q .
Speaker 1And so it's really cool to see that .
Speaker 2Yeah , I've seen them at other concepts and I've seen them at shows and I'm familiar with their brand and what they can do and , as I think of , if you're building something that's restaurant in the future and just how to connect , and they're just very innovative . They seem to be very innovative , very forward thinking and I don't know . I just think they're just some really cool things .
Speaker 1Point of sale .
Speaker 2They are yes , it's beyond yes .
Speaker 1It's next level Next level .
Speaker 2So so , yeah , I follow , I do follow Jen and the team over there and I'm looking at all they're they're putting together and I just think it's something to keep an eye on because I think it may be next gen , that's the next gen of where we're going . No pun intended on the gen part .
Speaker 1Well , and she's , she's awesome and the whole team is just phenomenal . They've been , they've been great to work with . So where do people go to learn more about shiplies and where can they get some of your tidbits of wisdom ?
Speaker 2Oh well , you can follow me on LinkedIn . Full name Donna Spangler Josephson . So if you want to follow me and I'm be happy . Or or LinkedIn with me and network . And then for shiplies , you know we're at shipliedownlotscom . We just launched our first ever loyalty program just about a week and a half ago .
Speaker 1Who'd you use ?
Speaker 2We are using Patronix .
Speaker 1We love them . They're great . Yeah , do some really cool stuff .
Speaker 2Yeah , they've been great to work with to get it launched off the ground . And then we're on all the usual platforms Facebook , Instagram , Twitter and now just launched TikTok . So , as a reminder , I said we were 87 . So we're just getting into this ballgame here , but it's been a whole lot of fun . So awesome .
Speaker 1Well , donna , for being the icing to the donut of restaurant marketing . Today's ovation goes to you . Thanks for helping us take a bite out of this donut .
Speaker 2You are so welcome . Thanks for having me .
Speaker 1Thanks for joining us today . If you like this episode , leave us a review on Apple podcasts or your favorite place to listen . We're all about feedback here . Again , this episode was sponsored by Ovation , a two question SMS based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi unit restaurants . If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience , visit us at ovationupcom .