Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast is your backstage pass to the minds of hospitality leaders, innovators, and operators who are redefining what it means to serve. Hosted by Zack Oates, founder of Ovation, each episode dives into real-world tactics and inspiring stories from restaurant pros who know how to create five-star guest experiences—both in-store and off-premise.
From fast casual to fine dining, catering to curbside, learn how to drive loyalty, empower your staff, and deliver hospitality that hits home. Whether you're a restaurant owner, operator, marketer, or tech partner, this podcast will leave you with practical insights and plenty of reasons to celebrate and Give an Ovation.
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Leading and Evolving Successful Restaurant Brands with G.J. Hart
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What does it take to lead successful brands like Red Robin, Torchy's Tacos, California Pizza Kitchen, and Texas Roadhouse? G.J. Hart, current CEO of Red Robin, breaks it down for us, stressing the importance of remaining true to the essence of the brand while testing changes to keep it attractive to customers. G.J.'s insights are a treasure trove for anyone involved in the restaurant business so tune in and hear about his extensive experience and knowledge.
On this episode, you'll learn from G.J. about:
- The hospitality model
- Investing in the right people
- Critical balance between consistency, differentiation, and authenticity
- More!
Thanks, G.J.!
Maintaining Brand Identity and Evolving
Speaker 1Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation , the Restaurant Guest Experience podcast , where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience . This podcast is sponsored by Ovation , a two-question SMS-based real-time guest feedback platform that helps restaurants measure and improve their guest experience . Learn more at ovationupcom , and I am so excited to be joined today by the one and only GJ Hart . What's up , GJ ? How are you ? Hey ?
Speaker 2man , it's great to be with you . Zach , it's good to see you .
Speaker 1Now , if there may be a listener out there who doesn't know who GJ is , let me just give a quick little synopsis . He's a CEO of Red Robin , previously CEO of Torchies , Tacos , California Pizza Kitchen , Texas Roadhouse . And Red Robin , as we talked about at the Prosper Conference , which was phenomenal . But , as we mentioned , Red Robin has a special place in my heart because that's where I ask my now father-in-law for permission to marry my wife , and so Red Robin not only has good food but also serving up good memories . And one thing that I want to just kick off with here , GJ , is that there's a lot of these brands are not just tiny brands . We're talking about brands that have a lot of passion behind them , a lot of sentimental value . I mean , honestly , the fries at Red Robin , the queso of Torchies , the barbecue pizza chicken of CPK and the rolls of Texas Roadhouse all four of those things would be in the running for my death row meal . And how do you manage having people that have such sentimental value to your menu ? How do you manage any changes ?
Speaker 2Well , when you say changes , you don't change much , that's for sure . At the end of the day , on each of those examples , trying to think they haven't changed forever really and I think it's being true to that , and not trying to shortcut it , because when you shortcut it , guests figure that stuff out , and so it's important that you stay true to who you are .
Speaker 1And so how do you differentiate what's going to be true to who you are versus something that's like hey , this is something cool that we're trying , Because I know that , yeah , go ahead .
Speaker 2Now .
Speaker 2I was just going to say it's always worth testing things right and in evolution in terms of where you're positioned as a company and as a brand .
Speaker 2In the case of Red Robin , we're much about Americana , and when you think about bottomless fries or you think about burgers , you think about our shakes and you think about those things that are true Americana , and now , while it's not totally Americana , we have pizza as well , but it is as much a part of the culture in America as you can get . So , at the end of the day , it's making sure you stay true and then be willing to test those things , because guests are still looking for change in some respects . There's a certain portion of those guests that want that and you want to stay relevant to the ultimate consumer and as people go in and out of brands or they grow with brands . Red Robin , one of the things that's really cool is I can't tell you how many people I've met along the way . It says my parents took me to Red Robin , I take my kids to Red Robin , and so it's multi-generational . So you need to stay relevant and make sure that you're attracting and continuing to maintain those guests as best you can .
Speaker 1And I actually remember my very first Red Robin burger because when my dad was playing for the Giants they had the Red Robin . That was near the Meadowlands and after the games we would be coming home and we'd stop at Red Robin and I remember getting the Banzai burger and that was my first time of seeing pineapple on a burger and I love . When I go to Red Robin , every single time I look at the menu . Even if I don't get the Banzai burger , I've got that core memory of going there with my family after the Giants game and getting that Banzai burger . And actually what's funny is the owner of the restaurant at that time he's still a good family friend and I just was hanging out with him when I was at my house a few weeks ago .
Speaker 1So it's , and we met him because we went to that Red Robin quite a bit growing up , and so I think you're totally right . But you have that nostalgia and so what's your framework that you use around ? Because obviously you test something and if it works you want to keep it , but you can't just keep adding and adding , and adding and adding . So what's your framework around ? What stays and what goes , and both on the menu and on just like the brand side of things .
Speaker 2Well , on the menu side , we have a strategy that we are working hard to live up to , which is , if you put a menu item on , you take one off , and so that's always challenging , right ? Because you're going to alienate some guests if it's their favorite item and you're constantly doing an evaluation of how many do you sell , where do you sell ? All those kind of things . Just stay true to that . So we do that religiously and we're not always going to get it right , but we want to maintain something that we can execute really really well over and over again and candidly , through Red Robin's menu evolution before my time , the company had gone through a series of iterations of reducing menu items , and that was particularly happening through COVID , and so I think now we're in a pretty good place from a menu account perspective , but we need to be careful From a brand perspective .
Speaker 2Again , I think it's making sure you understand how do you differentiate who you are in the category that you play in . So we're in casual dining . We very much are around kids , family and great value with a great product and hospitality . We know that that's what we need to do and do it really really well and staying true , but evolve that and the way you evolve . That is ultimately talking and listening to the feedback from your guests , so that you're listening to them and evolving it within those differentiated factors that you believe you can position the brand long term . So it's a never ending battle , or not a battle , but it's a never ending path and journey that we're on to make sure that we get better each and every day .
Speaker 1And I mean , in some respects it really is a battle right , because it's really so challenging , as you are fighting what the brand needs to evolve , and how do you keep that nostalgia but not have a menu and not have a brand that's so eclectic and over complicated that you can't deliver right ? And I think that guides us to the real heart of this , which is what do you think the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays is ?
Speaker 2Well , before I go there , I'll be happy to do that , zach . I'm going to go back a little bit . That's part of in my tenure here , which is just on a little over a year now that I've been the CEO of Red Robin , and one of the things we did is really took a look back to how do we differentiate ourselves , are we true to that and do we have these key pillars that we truly are executing against ? For example , every single Red Robin says Red Robin . The outside signage says Red Robin , gourmet burgers and brews , so gourmet burgers .
Speaker 2Well , as you know , an iconic brand like Red Robin been around north of 50 years and really owned that gourmet space for a long time .
Speaker 2There's been a lot of players come into the space , and so my question coming in was hey , are we really being true to this gourmet burger commitment that we make ?
Speaker 2And the truth was , we felt like we needed to evolve , which is what ultimately drove the change in cooking platform to a flat top versus a conveyor belt system that's used more in a fast food and fast casual world , and we made that change and now we've just launched , this past week , an upgrade on almost every ingredient , things from mayonnaise to rye and white vine , ripe tomatoes to a bacon that's thicker , to pickles that are higher quality .
Speaker 2So trying to continue the upgrade to be true to that gourmet burger positioning , which is part of who the brand is , and so we're really really excited about doing that and it's really , I think , the essence of how we're going to make this North Star plan that we've put in place come to life . And we're starting with burgers and we'll go across all the menu and , candidly , with this promotion , we've actually touched almost every and upgraded almost every ingredient on the menu , because our sauces are our most things . So it's pretty cool . The work that we've done and the feedback we've been getting thus far has been absolutely amazing . So , again , that's the long answer to your question , but it gives you some sense .
Speaker 1But I think that makes so much sense though I mean that's so important of getting your space in the market . I love that concept of defining your space and owning that space and being true to what you say you do , because it's easy to say gourmet burger . It's sometimes hard as costs are going up , as you know , tastes are changing . Like how do you actually maintain that ? And what's a gourmet burger today might not be the same thing as a gourmet burger in four years , right , and so being flexible , but having that core , that iron core of here's the common thing that people expect of us and here's what they can get every single time . And the other thing in terms of , at least in Utah , the other thing you could expect from Red Robin is a weight because it is so popular , which is awesome .
Speaker 1I was telling you , actually , I think I was telling you in Florida there's a restaurant next to one of the Red Robins and the only reason they're in business is because the Red Robin weight sometimes is so long that they then go to the restaurant across the street or across the hall in the mall and go there . But part of it not always being so easy and so available is almost one of the appeals of it . You know that it's not always . You got to kind of that Chick-fil-A mentality of you can't have it on Sundays , but I think that's the thing that you're talking about of staying true , defining the core and staying true to that . I think it's something that every restaurant , small or large , can really take to heart . No pun intended there , but Sure enough .
Speaker 2So your question that I did get the answer was more around hospitality .
Speaker 1Yeah , what do you feel like the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays is ?
Speaker 2Okay , so this is more holistic in view . The way I describe it is to do an incredible job for someone in a restaurant today is that every single team member treats the guest that walks in the door , from the time they hit that door or even before they hit the door , like they're coming into your home and you give that experience . And if you take the mindset of if you were bringing someone or inviting someone to dinner at your home , what would you do ? How would you plan for it ? What would you think about ? What would you wear ? How do you address all the things that you do when you do something in your own home ? So to me , the ultimate guest experience is to be able to create that environment , and so I try to use that in a way that you constantly can evolve that . If you treat people that way , then typically they're going to be wowed as a result of that . So maybe a bit holistic , but I just love the analogy .
Speaker 1Yeah , I love that too . I recently read Unreasonable Hospitality and just that concept of that they went through of knowing people's names before they walked in and looking them up on social media . So when GJ walked in , oh welcome to Love and Madison Park , gj , I'm so glad you can join us , mr Hart Like just something like that to make them feel at home and think about all those aspects that go into helping somebody feel comfortable , not confused not where do I sit , not where do I wait , not where do I go , not who do I follow . I think that's . I love that aspect . And what are some ? What are some tactics that you would say you've used to improve the guest experience , specifically at Red Robin the last year ?
Improving Hospitality and Restaurant Management
Speaker 2Yeah , sure . So we've really been working on the hospitality model and we've spent a tremendous amount of time going a bit back to sort of the classic hospitality that I come from , the world that I come from . So we were using a very much a team , a hybrid team approach at Red Robin and I think what happens in a challenging labor environment and a challenging labor period is that sounds great when everything is working and everybody's there . But going back to having a server have less tables and can give more attention to those tables is going to work . So I think that's one thing that we've been working on and actually providing the support whether it's bussars or whether it's bartenders or the support staff to be able to service those guests , versus you have less servers on the table but more assistance to help them . So we went back to more traditional that was one thing At the host stand making sure that we're staffed appropriately for the busy times and to make sure that we're there to read someone . We were doing side work and some other things at the host stand and you know those are things , are natural that companies go through or brands go through , and I think it's really , really important like , let's figure out how to get that work done separately from when we're busy and when we have guests in the building and so taking time to do that . In addition , in our case , we really started to focus on the expo station to make sure that there's someone taking a look and managing as a quarterback of the kitchen , to make sure that we're that's the last point before it hits the guest table that the product and everything that's on that plate is correct and accurate . And so those are things we're working on .
Speaker 2We're in addition to that . There's some other things just from a management staffing perspective , to make sure we have the appropriate managers that are focused on specific areas . So front of house manager while we're open and particularly when we're busy , to make sure that they can be helpful to our servers and also to make sure that they're touching tables . We try now to put in place a program where , if it's a first time guest , that we're identifying that guest and actually having a manager do a table visit to introduce themselves and welcome them to red Robin Believe it or not , iconic brand like red Robin still gets a lot of first time guests , so that's the type of thing that that will be memorable for that first experience and then we encourage our managers . It's their choice , but we encourage managers to do a little something extra and you know , norans , they call that land gap , so it might be some fries what basket of fries say hey , welcome , enjoy these on us and , you know , spend a little time with them . So it's little things like that that make a big , big difference .
Speaker 2And then the last thing I would say is that , from red Robin's perspective to the staffing crisis and everything that's happened , we had , we had A pretty big challenge with the , with false weights , and we spent a lot of time just making sure that we're staffed appropriately so that we're not on false weights , to make sure guests is treated .
Speaker 2So you don't walk into a restaurant , you see us , you tell you have to wait 30 minutes and you see sections of tables open . So that's something that we've made big improvements on and we've done a lot of analysis . It's actually Help us quite a bit in terms of the overall hospitality piece of business . In fact , I would tell you that our overall service sentiment I hate that , but it should be hospitality sentiment has gone up 28% just positive sentiment In the last year . So we are making some things that are showing that we're making big improvements . We've seen five points of improvement in our overall guest satisfaction scores . Those are big numbers and so we're not where we want to be yet , but we're making great progress and things those little things really matter when you put it all together .
Speaker 1And I tell that when I do my sessions all around the country talking about , you know , doing trainings on guest experience , that's one of the things we always talk about Is the little things matter . And they matter , gj , because they are the little things . And what I mean by that is you could fake a big thing . I could fake a big , grand gesture to my wife that I love her by buying her , you know , a nice diamond necklace , but then , if I don't remember that you know she wanted to sleep in on a Saturday and I don't get up with the kids . Then , like , those little things add up and they will overpower even the big gestures , because the small gestures they're hard to fake . The big ones are easy to fake .
Speaker 1And so you're exactly right . I truly believe that those little things matter so much . Okay . So final question of the day , gj , what advice do you have for a smaller restaurant brand , maybe not quite the size of of torchy , cpk Texas or red Robin ? What would you , what advice do you have for them if they're kind of more in the getting started phase or in that growth phase , the one to one to 10 phase ?
Speaker 2Advice relative to running the restaurant itself or just the business .
Speaker 1Yeah , If they have visions of getting as big as those other brands . What would you say is important in the early days to lay the foundation ?
Speaker 2Well , I would say yeah , At the end of the day , it's about the food . It's about the food and it's about the people that make the food happen . It's making sure that you invest in people . You start and end with people , taking good care of them to execute your brand and to make sure you're staying true to those people that would make it happen each and every day . And then secondly is make sure you do it really really well and consistently well , whatever that is , and that you ultimately have it , whatever that you choose to be differentiated by that you really work on doing that each and every day . So it's consistency . It starts and ends with people and it's making sure you differentiate yourself . Look , at the end of the day , this is a tough business , right ? That's a reason why 90 plus percent of the people that get in the restaurant business don't make it . There's a reason for that because it's hard . And it's hard because I think the people equation is the part that people miss a lot of times . You have to take care of your teams first .
Speaker 1That's fantastic advice Now , gj , who's someone that deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry , who's someone that we should be following .
Speaker 2Sure , well , I actually have two , if that's okay .
Speaker 1Okay , we'll give you a little slide for you .
Speaker 2Well , you'll understand here in a second I would tell you . The first one is a group that's been around forever that I admire . They do incredible work , they're super consistent and they know what they do really really well , and that's the Hillstone Group which they are . Just they're on it and I don't know that I've ever been to one of their restaurants that it's been disappointing . They do an amazing job . In terms of the second one , I have to say if I'm going to give a shout out , it's going to be the Texas Roadhouse . Granted , I was there for a long period of time and was a part of growing that brand , but they do an incredible job of really making every guest feel important and they do that by maintaining three table sections and they do it really really well . So that's why I gave you two , because that one's a bit biased , because I still love the company .
Speaker 1That's awesome . Well , where should people go to learn more about GJ Hart ? Do you post your musings anywhere , any social media ?
Speaker 2No , I'd rather have people come to our 500 plus restaurants and come join us or check us out on redrovincom or any of the social channels so they can engage with us .
Speaker 1Awesome . Well , gj , for Keepin' Watch over a place that has a special place in my heart . Today's Ovation goes to you . Thank you so much for joining us on Give an Ovation you bet .
Speaker 2Thanks for having me .
Speaker 1Thanks for joining us today . If you like this episode , leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen . We're all about feedback here . Again , this episode was sponsored by Ovation , a two-question , sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants . If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience , visit us at ovationupcom .