Mastering Hospitality Marketing with Marlo Fogelman

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions. Learn more at OvationUpcom. And today we have a special sick edition of Give an Ovation because, if you can't tell by my voice, I'm recovering from something and our guest is also recovering from something. But she is such a rock star. Appreciate her coming on. Still, marlo Fogelman, the founder and CEO of Marlo Marketing. She's not just a marketing maven, but she also has a law degree. Wow, that's a dangerous combo, but Marlo thanks for weathering the storm and coming on the pod.

Speaker 2: 0:53

Oh, thanks for having me. I wouldn't miss it.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Well, and actually funny story because we've got this sick connection, because when Marlo and I met, we met at the Delta Sky Club in where were we?

Speaker 2: 1:06

Phoenix Phoenix Restaurant Leadership Conference.

Speaker 1: 1:08

That's right, and we ended up sitting with some mutual friends and then I couldn't talk at all. My voice was gone and Marlo was kind enough to engage in as much conversation as I was able, but I was super impressed with what she did and I was like I need to have you on the podcast is what I wrote down on a piece of paper. And so finally it came, Marlo. So talk to me a little bit about what is. What do you do at Marlo Marketing?

Speaker 2: 1:38

What do we do at Marlo Marketing? Well, we focus on three areas hospitality, so restaurants and hotels. Cpg mostly food and beverage products. And lifestyle, which is sort of our catch-all for anything that doesn't fall into those other two categories. So everything from movie theaters to senior living, to destinations like a zoo sort of thing, and we are an integrated marketing agency. So people hire us in really three ways. Sometimes people hire us just for creative. They need a name, a brand identity, a website. If it's a CPG product, they need packaging. If it's a restaurant, they need website and menus and signage. And then we're done. Other companies will hire us to be their PR firm, their digital firm, their social firm, their influencer firm.

Speaker 2: 2:25

And about nine years ago we got into an area that I don't. I haven't personally found anybody else who's doing what we're doing, but the CEO of a 27 unit restaurant group, casual dining, called me up. They had locations from Maine to Pennsylvania and he said I want to fire my entire internal marketing team of six people and hire you. And I was like I don't do that, hire me to be your agency. And he convinced me to do it and we came in and we set the company's single-day sales record in 30 years. And we just broke milestone after milestone after milestone and what we realized was that there's a lot of marketing people that aren't actually good at marketing and it's very hard especially on the restaurant side for operations people to understand the skills that they need, the qualifications, the level right, the salary where people should be at, and the strategy and direction.

Speaker 2: 3:17

And, especially today, because marketing has become so siloed with so many different, areas and the younger people who are getting into it, instead of sort of being unicorns across the industry, are only social, only influencer, only pr, only digital, only loyalty, and that's great. But if you hire somebody to run your program, who is that has that mindset, they're not going to really understand sort of the holistic approach. And also a lot of brands don't need 40 hours a week of each of those skills, so it's hard to hire. So we started a new division of our company called Outsourced Hospitality Marketing where we offer fractional CMO and execution services in the hospitality space.

Speaker 1: 3:58

I love that. It just makes so much sense because you have these brands where it's like I need something, but I don't need everything all the time, but I need something a lot of times.

Speaker 2: 4:08

Yeah, and we get hired to do brand audit, team audits. We've been hired a bunch to do that. Actually, the clients that we met through was that we started in that, where they had a team of nine people on their payroll and they didn't know if the jobs they were, the skills they were the skills they were being asked to do. If they had them, if their salaries were right, if communications was right, if the way they were interacting with the ops team was right. So we can come in and do a marketing team audit, we can make recommendations on where you should hire, where you should outsource, and so we do lots of projects like that where we'll come in sort of as a one-off, as well as that more ongoing strategy and execution.

Speaker 1: 4:50

Got it Well, that's awesome. I think it makes a lot of sense. And when you're looking at marketing and you're looking at these restaurant brands, what do you see as a big mistake they often make with marketing?

Speaker 2: 5:03

Yeah, not knowing what they should be doing. Really, like I said, it's very marketing for me, just to give an example, when I have to hire somebody from my creative team, it's very. If I didn't have a creative director that I trusted, I wouldn't be able to do it. I can look at somebody's resume, I can look at their example, their work product from past jobs, but I have no idea if they were, you know how how much of that they did by themselves, how much of that they had you know a more senior person who was directing them. I don't know how they save files, you know all of those things. So if I didn't have a creative director that I trusted to uh, to vet that, it would be hard. And so I think, especially in the restaurant space, there are so many ways you can go with marketing that it's very, very hard for operations to understand what they should be hiring, what their actual needs are, and that's really what the outsourced hospitality marketing division was designed to solve for.

Speaker 1: 6:04

That makes. Yeah, I love that, because it just makes so much sense when you're thinking about how do you want to hire for marketing and without, because it is such a team effort, it's hard to hire individuals, right, because contributions are tough to suss out, and I think, at the end of the day, though, when you look at what we're really hiring for and what everyone in the hospitality industry needs, it's a guest centric approach, right? And so what do you think is the most important aspect of the guest experience nowadays?

Speaker 2: 6:37

Well, I mean, the restaurant world has never been easy business right, and it's only getting harder, you know, especially now grocery prices are finally easing, which makes the restaurant prices seem even higher. You know, I really hate to answer with like the most cliche of answers, but it's truly all about hospitality, even more today, making people feel welcome, being friendly, and then the little touches that take any guest experience to the next level. So I mean that can span the spectrum from, you know, a little high touch element to customization and personalization using technology.

Speaker 1: 7:12

And I think that that is so true. And when you look at the guests, nowadays there's also an increased expectation, right, because of technology. We're not being compared to, you know, joe's restaurant down the street. We're being compared to Amazon, to Bank of America, to apps that usually run pretty smoothly, right, and so it's tough because there's these great personalized apps, and the only way that you can compete with that is by partnering with the right people.

Speaker 2: 7:46

It's that and I think there's also. You know, I just got back from a couple of weeks in Europe. I was in Milan and Barcelona and I saw a couple of things. I was in my new favorite hotel brand, portrait Hotel. I didn't stay there, but I went there I think three times for breakfast, an overpriced coffee. But I went into the restroom and they had a changing table Great, I mean, all restaurants have a changing table of some sort. But there were three little bags, buckets of diapers, three size diapers. So if you have a little newborn, if you have a baby who's six to 12, if you have a baby that's one to two, and I took a picture of that and I sent it to one of my clients here in the States. It's that sort of thing that gets people talking.

Speaker 2: 8:34

I was in Barcelona, went to Paradiso, one of the world's best bars. This is a place that could be resting on its laurels, getting lazy. They have crazy busy lines out the door but you walk in and they're friendly and they're smiling and you know they don't really have time to sit and like go through the whole menu with you because they're shaking their drinks and they're, but they are. I was, I was very, very impressed. These things go a really long way. Um, you know, same thing with some other restaurants where there's just lines at the door, and so sometimes in bigger restaurants, whether it's casual, qsr or whatever, yes, technology you can certainly use that, and there's so many great ways to use technology, but you know it's, I would never sort of lose sight of the little things that can be done, especially in an independent restaurant, that just go such a long way.

Speaker 1: 9:24

I think about. You know, today, as the day that we're recording this, betty Nash passed away yesterday and for those who don't know Betty Nash, she was the world's oldest flight attendant She'd been. You know, she was 88 years old and still doing planes and they talked about you know, I watched a tribute to her today and it was all about how she was so, even though all the technology around her was changing and you know, she was able to adapt with it. But at the end of the day, it was about connection, right, and that's why I think that it's so important not to remove humans from that but to enable humans with technology. And I love what you said about hospitality. And how did you define it? You said something about hospitality is what? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 10:20

I don't know what I said before, but it's about making people feel welcome right.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Yeah, that's exactly what you said. I love that. What a great way to think about hospitality, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:31

And there's ways that bigger restaurants and chains that have the budget and the ability and the need for the technology all of the technology solutions that are out there that they can certainly do right. So when you're thinking about how you want brands to communicate, to you you want to feel.

Speaker 2: 10:47

I want to feel like somebody's speaking to me. I want emails and text messages about new items or items that are actually of interest to me, right? We all know that people today have incredibly short attention spans, so it's even harder to break through the noise. But if a restaurant knows, based on order history, for example, that I'm an avid Campari Spritz drinker and I've never ordered a beer, and they can use that data to better communicate with me, so if they're launching a new Campari cocktail, they wanna send me a message. They know to send me a message using technology, but if they're having a beer dinner, I'm not gonna get that message because it doesn't make sense and it's just. Then it becomes spam to me, right?

Speaker 2: 11:23

So and you said earlier, um, amazon, which is a great example of a non-hospitality brand, right, if you're a prime member, anytime you open Amazon, there's that deals for you section and it always shows items you've looked at before Maybe you've purchased before, maybe not things that are on sale. They know what I like, they know what I want and every time I open it, they're speaking directly to me my preference and items I'm most likely to purchase. So in hospitality, we can do that now. We can do that with segmentation it's most powerful for the brands that have loyalty programs and robust CRM or we can access all the data on guests and just create really targeted and customized communications. And then you throw AI into the mix, which we're still all figuring out, and it just takes it to the next level.

Speaker 1: 12:09

So I know, I feel like we talk about AI, kind of like we talked about the pandemic in like the first week, where it was like there's something out there, I think it's going to affect us and we had like no idea how big it was going to be. I still feel like we are week one of pandemic when it comes to AI. This AI is going to be the most powerful thing to happen to the world since the creation of the internet. I mean, this is the industrial revolution all over again and I feel like people are starting to get it, but I don't know if the impact has necessarily been felt yet. But I mean, just keep in mind, elon Musk just created that AI company and it's worth like $24 billion and it's like a pretty young company, so it's crazy.

Speaker 1: 12:51

But you know, talking about tactics, let's talk about that. I love this idea. Let's focus on the guests. Let's focus on hospitality, helping them feel welcome, that human to human interaction. Okay, now let's talk about, like, what are some things that we can do? What are some things that we should, that we should do to improve the guest experience?

Speaker 2: 13:11

That's a really, really big question and it's again, it depends how we're talking about the sort of smaller mom and pop, you know two. You know two to 10 local group. You know geography, restaurant group are we talking? You know, multi-unit QSR, across States, across whatever, right? So you know.

Speaker 2: 13:31

That's another thing too about marketing that everybody thinks not everybody but many people think that it's a one size fits all and it's not. It's not. You know, I literally just had a call right before this with a, a, a restaurateur, who's opening up a concept that he hopes to expand down the line and he's got sort of this list of his needs. But what I really enjoyed about speaking with him was that it was really clear that he's open to sort of saying these are my goals, right, and this is what I think any business, restaurant or otherwise, this is how we approach any client what are your business goals, right? Start with that. It's not just about marketing for marketing's sake. It's not just about Instagram, having that Instagram wall, that Instagrammable moment or that Instagrammable cocktail or whatever, just for the sake of that. Right, like, what are your business goals? And once you know what your business goals are, then you work backwards and then you create your marketing plan and then you determine what the tactics should be, and of course it also depends on budget right.

Speaker 2: 14:30

You know not every how easy was it for the hotel in Milan to put some baby diapers in. You know, and I guarantee that's probably been Instagrammed way more than any intentional Instagram moment. So I don't want to answer that question because it's so broad, and I would just say always think about what your business goals are and then work backwards.

Speaker 1: 14:54

I think that makes a lot of sense Because, as I think about, like the diapers, for example, you know I always define hospitality as proving to the guest that you care and the and I always say that the small things matter because they're the small things. Right, you can fake the big gestures, but those little things, like having diapers there in the changing room, something that Multi.

Speaker 2: 15:16

Multi-sized diapers, multi right.

Speaker 1: 15:18

Multi-sized diapers Three different sizes of diapers. Like I mean that just shows that I mean first of all size of diapers. Like I mean that just shows that I mean first of all it probably shows that a woman was in charge, but second of all it shows like that when there's something that happens that so few people notice, that really stands out. Like I remember I went into a. I went into one of my advisor's offices and on the office there was a little folded piece of paper and it was kind of like folded in a little tent and it said, yes, we clean here too. And I was like what is this? And he said I was in a hotel and something fell on the ground under the bed and I went to go go pick it up and I saw that little card underneath the bed and it said, yes, we clean here too, and that he's like. And then I called the hotel and I asked him if I could take the card. They said yes and he goes.

Speaker 1: 16:15

But it just made such a big impression to me because it was something that so few people would notice. And when you can do that that and very few people notice, it makes a big impact. I look at it like you know, we see it in the data of when you respond individually to a guest who has a bad experience, it means something, because no one else except that guest even saw it. And when you do something just for them, that makes them feel welcome. It makes them feel important.

Speaker 2: 16:49

It makes them feel heard. You know, years ago this restaurant group where we got into the outsourced marketing model with they had it was a Mexican restaurant. They had a Muslim gentleman and they put beef in his burrito and we got the letter. I had one person who spent 40 hours a week on ORM for that client. They had a lot of issues and complaints and he was mad. Obviously, I mean, this goes against everything this gentleman believes in. And so we drafted the response. We sent it to the general manager of that location because we wanted it to come from the store instead of from marketing. He sent the email.

Speaker 2: 17:26

The gentleman wrote back and said I made up my mind to sue you, but it really makes a difference when you feel you've been heard. So thank you and you know, thank you. So it's really it's about being heard, it's about being valued and by doing these things that show people. And and it's about being heard. It's about being valued and by doing these things that show people and and it's such a unfortunately it's such a low bar these days to do those kinds of things right, it goes a long way.

Speaker 1: 17:55

Amen. So who is someone that deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry? Who's someone that we should be following?

Speaker 2: 18:02

Let me tell you I just got back. As you know, we were both in Chicago for the NRA show and I heard about one of my VPs sent me an email about this event called Utility, which was an independent alternative to NRA, and they had an event on Sunday and Monday of the show and I went over to it. I was staying 15 minute walk away and it was founded by Jenny Goodman and Alex McCreary. They are the founders of New York City based hospitality workwear brand, Tillit, and they had exhibited it at NRA a few times and just found it not suitable for their needs. Right For the smaller brands, it's very expensive, as you know, to exhibit, and so they created this event where it was designed to pay attention to more of that independent restaurants and the ecosystems of businesses around them. So they had some pretty big sponsors.

Speaker 2: 18:57

Sorry, I'm not getting choked up and sad I'm getting choked up. They had some pretty big sponsors. They had panels with culinary entrepreneurs. Obviously the IRC was there. So it was. I was. You know what? These people had spent money, they'd experienced it, they had tried it, realized it wasn't for them, realized that this was something that a lot of brands, a lot of brands, might experience, might feel as well, and they created an opportunity, something different for a section of the industry that, to be honest, feels marginalized by, you know, some of the bigger, the bigger organization. So I think they are doing a great job.

Speaker 1: 19:36

Awesome, love that. And where can people go to learn more about you or Marla Marketing?

Speaker 2: 19:42

people go to learn more about you or Marla Marketing. You can go to my website, marlamarketingcom. You can go to my other website, outsourcedhmcom. That's just the fractional CMO and execution for the hospitality world. So those are our Instagram Marla Marketing.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Awesome. Well, marlo, for showing us that lawyers can indeed be cool. Today's ovation goes to you. Thanks for joining us on Give an Ovation. Thanks, zach.

Speaker 2: 20:09

I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 20:12

Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at OvationUpcom.