The Difference of a Few Degrees with Andy Husbands

Zack: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is always sponsored by Ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives them all the answers without annoying the guests. With all the questions. Learn more at ovationupcom. And today we have a legend, a titan and, what I recently found out, a movie star Andy Husbands, the owner of the Smoke Shop BBQ, author of Pit Master. And not just Pit Master, but Pit Master is the book that I have behind me on my shelf. That wasn't your first book, Andy, right? No?

Andy: 0:43

that's my best-selling book. I like to say. It took me four books to write a really good one. I've written six books all together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zack: 0:50

Because starting restaurants is just too easy, right. So you're like ah, I'm bored, I'm going to write some books. That's crazy man.

Andy: 0:57

Um, I just like to stay busy. In some ways, writing a book is really, really challenging, but in other ways it's not that bad. It's like writing a really big report. That's really what it is.

Zack: 1:07

As someone who's written a book, I got to disagree with you, man. It was so much work and so much harder than I thought it would be and took so much longer than I thought it would be, and the road show and the book signings and Barnes Nobles and stuff was so much less fun than I thought it would be. It was just like a grueling process. But you're someone who's done it and then wrote about it because you've got some good food, man, I mean Boston Magazine. Thanks, Greg. If I'm wrong, they've given you the best barbecue award four times.

Andy: 1:35

Yeah, yeah, four times.

Zack: 1:36

Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty hefty mark, and so obviously you're doing a lot of things right, and the question that I want to ask you is you obviously are an icon in the industry. A lot of people look up to you, a lot of people look at your restaurants as being something they're aspiring to. I mean, your volumes are just insane. So the question is what are most restaurants getting wrong? What are you doing that they're not?

Andy: 1:59

Gosh, I don't know, because I certainly don't want to think that I'm better than anyone else. You said all those nice things, but I have the same issues that everybody has my name is the sales.

Andy: 2:07

Of course I mean yeah, I think you know it's deciding what's important. I think that's probably really really one of the big things, and I used to roll with a bunch of chefs and like fancy chefs so you still have a fancy restaurant than a barbecue restaurant and I love my barbecue restaurant. But I had this guy that told me aside, we were kind of having an argument about the industry and he told me that I was going off about my food and he was like, yeah, so you know, hospitality, trump's food and as a chef, by training and all I've ever done all my life, it somewhat angered me. And Trump's food, yeah, it's more important than food. I thought a lot about that and, as much as I hate to say it, tommy was right and if you think about it, great food like unbelievable food, not great service why would I come back? Okay, food, think about diner it's fine, it's good and that awesome service you get. You're like that was a great experience. It's really about hospitality and how you feel and how you are treated, and we think a lot about this. We think about what is the customer's experience as they walk into the door all the way to when they pay their check and leave, and we try to work on every single step that happens, and we're not a high touch restaurant. We're a barbecue restaurant with a great bourbon list. That stuff matters to us too.

Andy: 3:23

Our philosophy, this is our philosophy, and I can say this to any employee and say as long as you follow this, you're going to be good, you're going to be great. Our philosophy is treat everybody like grandma. Oh, okay, I like that, you know. And what's great about grandma is you know you can tell grandma to pump the brakes on the drinks. It can be like grandma. Probably we're good. But if you had to move grandma from one seat no-transcript you should be horrified. If your grandma's like A I'd really like an avocado with this the answer should be if I've got one, and it's right, it's yours. What would you say to your grandma? Love and reverence. We think a lot and talk a lot about this and it doesn't mean we don't make mistakes. I don't wanna get a bunch of hate mail. We make mistakes and we're always continually growing and learning and doing the best we can. Often I see restaurant tours doing what they think is best for them or cooking what they like, and that's not really who you're cooking for.

Andy: 4:16

Hopefully what you like is what they like.

Zack: 4:18

Yeah, I love the fact that obviously I've got this podcast. This is like we're approaching 300 episodes. I've talked to a lot of experts about this and I think a lot about hospitality. And let me tell you my definition of hospitality and tell me how you think. Hospitality, in my mind, is proving to the guest that you care about them, because you could care about a guest, but that doesn't matter. I could love someone in my family, that doesn't matter if they don't know it. I want that guest to have undeniable proof that I care about them, that they're important to me. So, anyway, that's how I define hospitality it's proving to the guest that you care. What's your take on that? Agree, disagree.

Andy: 5:00

I actually think that's a pretty good example. I think we're kind of saying the same thing. I don't think you need to prove grandma that you love her, but you show that you love her, yeah. And it's like when you see her, like hey, I'm nice to see you, I haven't seen you in a while. I think it's the same thing, just different ways. I see behind you. You also have set in the table by Danny Meyer and, of course, the amazing, unreasonable Hospitality.

Zack: 5:20

Yeah, you mean the New Testament and the Old Testament of hospitality.

Andy: 5:24

Yeah, unreasonable Hospitality is sick. That's what a great book. That book changed the way I cook my barbecue, believe it or not? Really, yeah, so it's all you can hear. I'm not from the South and that's not my background. I did not grow up cooking barbecue. I had a lot to learn, you know. In fact, I never had a real rib. I never had a real rib or a real pork. So I was 22, working for Jaysport Beer and War Winning Chris Laxinger that's where I first had it and I fell in love with barbecue. Then I come from the competition trail. So you know I'm a member of a world champion barbecue team, or a, led by a guy named Chris Hart. He's amazing.

Andy: 5:56

I'm so focused on how you do a competition rib and you cook it to about 192 to 193, at least you used to. Now they've done a little something different. I mean, you can do whatever you want, but we used to cook them to 194. That was it, 194. 200 degrees is when things start to shred. 194 is where we cook our ribs too. That's it. So when you bite and you pull away, you have a mouth mark. How does everybody want their ribs? What do they say about ribs? Fall off the bones Right and so fall off the bones. Hundreds of comments. You know I respond to all our Google reviews. Hundreds of comments about the ribs aren't good, the ribs are undercooked, the ribs aren't falling off the bone, and we would get that comment in the restaurant and everybody was trained I would respond to the Google reviews the same way. Hey, this is the style we're doing. It's a competition style. It's a little differently different than you used to, has a little bit of pull, but I think you're going to really like him when you think about him like this In Unri's hospitality he talks about, he walks by a server talking to a guest about.

Andy: 6:52

The guest wanted a medium rare steak and the server was explaining to him that they cook this sous vide which is like exact and they cook it to 135. Exactly medium rare, like this is perfect medium rare. There is no other better medium rare than this thing. But what he wasn't doing is he wasn't listening to the guest. The guest wasn't really arguing that it was or was not medium rare. The guest wanted cooked more. That's it what I saw.

Andy: 7:19

After I read that, I'm like I'm such an idiot. I'm like, oh my God, cook the ribs more. We went from 194 to 196 and now we're at 198. And we have not gotten a comment that they are undercooked and it's actually a kind of split hairs meaning it's not right, falling off the bone, but it's like so close and nobody, it's like perfect and everybody wins in that. So instead of me trying to educate the guest right and no, you're wrong, sir how about I cook for you? That's how, maybe not how I would cook the ribs at home. Right now we're serving about 8,600 people a week. In about a couple more months, you know, when barbecue season really gets going, we'll be doing about 12,000 people a week, a little more, maybe. You know I need them to be happy. Yeah, it's important to me.

Zack: 8:04

I love that because it's just such a slight change. It's a couple of degrees difference, but you could sit there and be right, or you could sit there and be rich.

Andy: 8:15

I don't remember me rich, but I certainly can be right. I've had a huge growth in this industry and in my mind and how I think about things, from when I was 14 working in a bakery you know the only in my first restaurant at 26,. I was back then when I was 26 years old. We were like what they want? The soy seared spinach on that dish? That's an Italian dish, they can't have that. I'll put it on the side. You know it's like, because I know better. I know what people should eat Like. Come on, I was you know I was fooling myself and a fancy chef and got a new right and the reality is the customer knows what they want.

Zack: 8:46

And I think that's the thing is. Obviously we're huge about guest feedback and listening because, to your point earlier, the way that we look at this is the thing that's going to get someone to come in one time is about convenience, which basically is like is the hype? Is what I think the experience is going to be. My expectations of the experience is that, more than the effort it takes to have the experience, if I see that you won Best Barbecue in Boston four times, then hey, that creates a little more hype and it could be a little more inconvenient.

Zack: 9:16

Parking doesn't have to be super accessible. I don't have to be able to walk in and walk out in three minutes, but that'll get someone in the door. But if you want someone to come back a few times, you have to be consistent. You can't keep changing things around or have a good experience one time, bad experience the other, have it cooked one way and then having it cook another. But then the highest level to get someone to come in for a lifetime is what we've been talking about, andy, which isn't just convenience, it's not just consistency, it's about connection. It's about that one to one connection and I love how you talk about grandma, because what is it about with grandma? Like, you sit down and what does grandma want to do? Grandma wants you to listen, grandma wants you to just spend some time with her, and I love that. That's how you describe it. In thinking about that, what do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays? Would it be that hospitality, that connection?

Andy: 10:10

Oh yeah, I mean, I don't even think these days there's always outliers, right. We used to have a place here that was known for their rude service or whatever. There's always outliers and exceptions to any rule. But yeah, no, it's always been hospitality. And I think what happened is in the 80s, late 80s, early 90s, people really started to understand that it was more than just eating food or good food even that. It was an experience, like it was a night out, understanding why guests come and what kind of experience they're looking for. I mean, I really liked what you said. It was funny.

Andy: 10:42

We were talking the other day. We were looking at a place where we can overlook all our guests in a little secret area in one of the restaurants, and I'm like, just look at all these people and try to figure out why they came here. There's like 10 restaurants right around that area. We're packed and I'm like we got to think about this. What an honor that they chose us. And they may have chosen it just by walking by, or they may have chosen it just by looking at something the internet or whatever, whatever it is and it's such an honor that someone chooses your place and then to kind of show that you're honored and give that customer that experience. That's how you win the game. Just totally.

Andy: 11:18

And I think what happens is what's very interesting. I'm sure it happens in your industry. You're adjacent to us. People forget what they're doing. They've young chefs. I used to have interns that like, oh, did you try this? No chef, what are we doing here? We're like putting food in people's body, so it should taste good, and people will become just do the motions. Well, I'm just taking food and I'm bringing it to this table and I'm dropping it off and I'm going to get some drinks and bring it over there. Or I'm actually like taking care of somebody for the evening, like there's a difference, right, yeah.

Zack: 11:48

And again, like Will says, make it cool to care Right, that's really hard to do, but I love how he says that. And speaking of Will and making it cool to care and all this hospitality talk, I like the philosophy of it. What are the many tactics that you've used to improve the guest experience recently?

Andy: 12:05

Well, we're looking at it a lot always. We're looking at a lot of what they call solutions, just trying to figure out from. We've had big success in our packaging, which is really neat, so that's one of our. You feel I know what you're saying when you're saying, yes, you're thinking in the chair, right, but just so we're clear, 20 to 25% of my business is not in a chair, it's in a bag, right, and that's something which is something that we talk a lot about, because we want the Uber and the DoorDash drivers, we want them treated really well because they're part of our business.

Andy: 12:36

And we want to make sure that everything in that bag is really good and looks good. So that is something we've really looked at. And then I'm telling you anybody that listens if you have problems where people say this exact thing works somewhere, it's not worth it. If you see that, look at your brand and look at what you do, look at what they're saying. So we got that a lot in our bags. This suite isn't worth it. We simply changed our packaging A more solid packaging. The size went up about a half ounce, but I don't think that really was the issue. We made it look really good. A really great experience when they open up the bag and what they see and how they see it and all those things. And we'd stop getting those comments. It wasn't worth it. That's one of the things that we did. We always. It's like paying the broken branch, where we'll do one thing and another. We were back on table touches just really important that we're having more than just the waiter touching the table. It's got to be a host or it's got to be a team leader or somebody. They are double checking, making sure and then this is the one that I love and we've been.

Andy: 13:35

Really this last month was all about. It was holos and your buys, that's it. I want people to get said hello to by like five or to 10 people, depending which restaurant Like, I want the host say hello, then I want to bartender yell at them and say, hey, what's up? And I want like a coke to go hey, thanks for coming. And then on the way out I wanted to be like just too many people say goodbye to me. That's what I want. I'm really angry that so many people say goodbye to me. That's what I want.

Zack: 13:58

That's awesome. There's some fire tactics right there, Andy.

Andy: 14:02

But those things like so I have young team members and I talk about those so close to buys and they'll circle back and I'll be like, have you thought about what I was talking about? And they're like, oh my gosh, I just realized how many people never say anything to me when I go into places. And I'm like, exactly yeah.

Zack: 14:16

Right, right. It's just like humanity of it all and it sits a tone of what the whole experience is going to be, and I think that's awesome.

Andy: 14:26

Well, who's to come to your house? Let me ask you a surprise. Coming to your house, right, and I have 20, and you know I was going to give you 20 bucks. When I got there You'd be like hey Andy, what's up? And I give you the 20 bucks, I'm leaving. I'm like thanks a lot Every time. What do people think guests are doing? They're coming to coming Like we know what you're going to do, we know what you're going to buy, we know it's going to be in the sandwich or a platter, maybe you'll get a side, you're probably going to get a whiskey and maybe maybe not a dessert. Like that's got to everybody. So like we know you're coming in to spend money. That's why people go into businesses, that's why we're there, yeah, right, so let's just acknowledge that Love that.

Zack: 14:59

Who's someone in the restaurant industry that deserves an ovation? Who's someone that we should be following? Andy.

Andy: 15:03

Oh gosh, well, garrett Harker. If you're not following Garrett Harker, you know what? I don't even know if he's on Instagram. If you, that's what you meant by fall, but I think he is. It's Eastern standard. Eastern standard, maybe, restaurant or something, I don't know what it is, but they just reopened. They closed during the pandemic for gosh knows why. A bunch of reasons, but they reopened. Really great place. They have a secret bar inside. I think it's called, equal measure, jackson Camons the bartender. It's super fancy and swanky, that little secret bar, so cool. These guys are top of the game of hospitality. I really think he's really, really great and it's just a cool place. Jeremy Sewell, row 34,. Come to Boston, eat some seafood. That's the place to go. This guy again. They're all about hospitality and local seafood. It's just phenomenal what they do. I love it Awesome.

Zack: 15:51

Yeah, jeremy Sewell and Garrett Harker.

Andy: 15:54

Yeah, some of the best in Boston and I've known these guys forever and I appreciate them a lot. Awesome, really good talents up here.

Zack: 16:01

Well, Andy, how do people find and follow you?

Andy: 16:04

Great question. Well, I'm at Andy Husbands pretty much everywhere, so Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. I'm not really on Facebook much, nor am I on Twitter much, but I'm always scooping around on Instagram. Give me a shout from the Boston. I think that's a pretty good way to get me. If you want to go to my website, thesmokeshopbarbecuecom always has what we do I teach barbecue classes If you're interested. We're going to have a new set coming out pretty soon for the spring, and we do them spring, summer and winter. That's awesome.

Zack: 16:36

Well, andy, for being the healthiest smoker that I know. Today's Ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us and giving Ovation Thank you. Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question SMS-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationupcom.