Leading Modern Restaurant Employees with Sam Fauser

Zack: 0:01

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the restaurant guest experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create five-star guest experiences. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, a two-question guest feedback platform that gives multi-unit restaurants all the answers without annoying their guests. With all the questions. Learn more at ovationupcom. And today I am so excited I have Sam Fouser on the pod with us today. Welcome, man. How are you?

Sam: 0:30

Oh, dude, I am so good. It is just a pleasure to be here. I am just excited. Been looking forward to this since we first talked about it I don't know months ago, and I'm ready to rock and roll. Let's give your listeners some good stuff today.

Zack: 0:46

So Sam and I met at a conference that we were both speaking out for Domino's and I was just so impressed with him. We ended up having lunch together and connecting and I was just. You know, this guy has seen a lot, he's done a lot and so I'm excited to get a drop of his ocean of wisdom. He's got 30 years of training and leveling up teams experience at Domino's and even some projects with NASCAR. He's now the owner of Fouser Consulting, where he provides performance and coaching and leadership development, and he currently is doing that in London London indeed, but not the London we'd hoped.

Zack: 1:24

London, kentucky. Right, he's in London, I'm 75.

Zack: 1:27

This is the first time I heard about London, kentucky was. When he said, oh, I'm at a hotel doing some training for a client here in London, I was like, oh, he's like Kentucky. Oh, but that's cool though, sam. So, sam, let's jump into the deep end. When you start with a client and you know you obviously have worked with hundreds of teams, trained thousands, maybe even tens of thousands, probably tens of thousands, especially based on the one group that you spoke to when I was there Tell me about something that you see that teams or leaders are doing wrong with their teams. What is something that you could go in and say here's a few things that you're probably doing wrong, based on the experience I've had.

Sam: 2:10

Well, I think the big thing in today's WorldZack is that we've got to understand the people we're leading. For me, I turned 59 years old last week and most of the people that I'm talking to you look good man. Oh, I think you are in that 18 to 25 year old range. If you remember when you were 18 to 25 years old, you thought a lot differently than you do now and you see the world a lot differently than you do now. I think the biggest opportunity for improvement that leaders have is to try to see the world the same way that people that they're leading do, and understand that times are changing and today's workforce is changing. One of the biggest pitfalls I see and you heard Tim McIntyre talk about this when we're at that meeting as well is that everybody wants to immediately say that today's workforce is lazy or today's workforce they're not self-starters. If you do any history at all, you see that people have been saying that for 2,000 years. That is not a new story. Today's workforce isn't any different than yesterday's workforce. When the previous generation is talking about them, Is there a difference between today's workforce and yesterday's workforce and how they deliver customer service and the things that they do? Yeah, there is.

Sam: 3:39

The choice that I keep telling my clients and the people that I am fortunate enough to work in front of is you can decide to try to change an entire generation of workers or you can change the way you lead. One of those groups is much smaller than the other, and one of those groups you have actually have a chance of changing. We're only in control of us. We can only control what we do, what we say, how we lead, and the choices we make are going to be the determining factors on how well people want to follow. There are some great kids out there that want to work hard, that want to do great things. I think they have less patience than my generation did. I think they want to be good now. I think they want to be rewarded when they do good things and I don't think there's anything wrong with giving them that.

Sam: 4:36

And once we wrap our head around that and we understand what motivates them and that they do want to be good, and that none of our team members are waking up in the morning looking in the mirror and saying, what can I do to really mess things up today? Yeah, Once we get out of that mindset, I think we can start to lead. And you see it in all across the country there are brands and there are individual units that are doing really, really well and they never have staffing issues and you know without even seeing the person that's running that place. They get it, they understand and that's the biggest opportunity I see.

Sam: 5:16

Most of my clients are older. Most of my clients have been in the business for decades and they fall into this trap of when I was a manager, we did this. Well, dude, you're not a manager anymore and times have changed and we've got to understand what our team members want and we have to see if we can provide that while still maintaining profitability. And we've got to create these mutually beneficial relationships with our team members. There has to be something in it for them and there has to be something in it for us.

Zack: 5:51

And I love that because you know they talk about. I've heard the phrase that experience is a poor teacher, because it makes you think you know what you're doing right. And it's so true that I had a friend one time who was having some issues with someone who a family member and they were having trouble understanding how that family member that family member was showing love by giving gifts and this individual wanted that family member to give them words of affirmation and I remember telling them I said look, you can work to change how they give love or you can accept the love they have to offer and translate that into the love that you want.

Sam: 6:34

Absolutely.

Zack: 6:36

And I think that that stands true with what you're talking about, which is they're not lazy, they're not soft, it's just different and that's okay. Right, it's okay that they're different. And you know, tim has been on the pod and that quote I love it. He puts up this quote and it's like children nowadays love luxury more than work and you know they disrespect their teachers. And he's like this is not from a decade ago, this is not from, you know, two years ago. This is Socrates, from like 400 BC. And the problem now? The problem is that as you get older, you change and your perspectives change. But, to your point, I see thousands of people who are willing to work hard in these younger generations, but they just are doing so in a different way than what you might expect, and I love that. You know, let's change a generation, or let's change how we lead that generation. One's easier and one we have control over. That's brilliant, sam. I love that.

Sam: 7:38

I mean, I don't care how persuasive I am and I can be pretty persuasive I'm not going to persuade an entire generation. No, it's just not going to happen. So I've got to decide what it is I want. How am I going to make this relationship mutually beneficial and how am I going to get my team to do the things I need them to do, because they want to do that?

Zack: 8:01

Yeah.

Sam: 8:02

If they don't want to do it. You know, the days of command and control, I think, are over. It's a leadership style that worked well and it had a time and I think that time has passed. And I think, even in the time of command and control, if people were more into understanding and knowing their team members, that we would have found out that that works much better. I want people to want to come to work because they want to be a part of something bigger, because they want to help us create great results, because they want to give great customer experiences and they love to see the customer smile. I don't want them to have to come to work because if they don't do what I say, I'm going to fire them. Yeah, that's not how I want to be.

Sam: 8:55

I find that my clients that are the most successful have crystal clear expectations what they expect from their team. They share those expectations, they hold their team members accountable to those expectations and they reward them accordingly when the expectations are met. I'm not saying be soft. I'm not saying let your team walk all over you. That's ridiculous. That's not going to give you the results you need. Businesses are in business to get a return on their investment. Nobody should ever be ashamed of that. You are a for-profit business. The more profit you can make as long as the relationship is beneficial and mutually beneficial with the customers and the company, then more power to it. It's something that has to happen.

Zack: 9:43

A personal mentor of mine and somebody who, oddly enough, has also been on the podcast, because you mentioned Command and Control Stephen Covey Jr MR. He wrote a book called Trust and Inspire. I love that book. I think every leader should read that, especially in light of this generation, because there's the Command and Control of yesteryear and there's a Trust and Inspire of today. How do we trust people and inspire them? Teach me why and show me how, as opposed to before, which is you do. Don't ask when you have that shift and again, it's not like you get work done. You're not talking about let's do less. You're talking about let's give reason for doing more. That's the thing that I feel like we often miss.

Sam: 10:38

That book. Trust and Inspire drew an eye to a little pod drew in Sam Talk Training. That was one of the books we did on the pod. Anything that's got the Covey name on it, it's going to be worth reading. That was a good read. When you trust people to get things done, then they want to get them done. Yes, and it's so important. You know I've got another friend of mine that wrote a book called Let them Lead. His name's John U Bacon and yes, I love that book.

Zack: 11:11

We heard John speak at the conference together.

Sam: 11:14

I mean that's such a good book. There are so many good lessons in that what some might think is a book about high school hockey and it really has nothing to do with high school hockey. You know, he says you got to water all the plants, you've got to treat all your team members with dignity and respect and see who responds to it. And I think that you'll be really surprised, when you water all of them, which ones grow and I think you'll be surprised at which ones don't grow sometimes. So it's just leadership is it's the key to success. You could have the greatest idea in the world for the greatest widget ever in the history of the world, but if you can't lead and inspire people, that idea is never gonna see the light of day or get off the ground or go where it should be.

Zack: 12:02

Amen love that. Sam, and you know you had mentioned guest experience and obviously not just the employee experience but also the guest experiences has shifted over the last three decades. It has. What do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience today?

Sam: 12:18

You know, when I do customer service and I would say that it is one of the things that I like most, because I think in today's world, especially in the restaurant world, I don't think your food is a differentiator anymore.

Sam: 12:33

I think your food is the cost of admission to the game oh, interesting. But I think the guest experience can become the differentiator. And in today's world, if you're good at it, you're better than most. If you're great at it, you've separated yourself from the pack exponentially. And you know, the old adage is the customer is always right. And when I'm teaching customer service, I'll get up in front of the class and I'll say, hey, you've heard, the customer is always right. And then I'll pause and I'll say, yeah, that's just not true. The customer is not always right. In fact, sometimes they are completely wrong. But that doesn't change that. They came to our place of business and they expect a good experience. It makes it harder for us to deliver it when they're belligerent, when they're mean, when they're rude. But at the end of the day, when I'm counting the money to make the deposit, I haven't labeled those $20 bills with friendly customer, mean customer, belligerent customer. They're just $20 bills and my job as the experience. My job to give them the customer experience, to get that ovation that we're looking for is to make sure that they have a great experience, and I've gotten to the point.

Sam: 13:51

I've been doing pizza for 40 years now. When I've got customers in it or in a bad mood, I start to play a game. What can I do to change their mood? What can I do to make them leave with a smile before this interaction is over? And if they are simply trying to pull the wool over my eyes or they're trying to get something for nothing, if I just give it to them sooner rather than later, then I get to shorten that experience that I have to have with them and they leave. And some of them leave happy, and I think the thing that we get caught up on in today's world is everybody's trying to get something for nothing.

Sam: 14:34

What if you're wrong? What if you truly did make a mistake? What if they did have a bad experience? What if their coffee was wrong? What if their pizza was wrong? And you're just not on the right side of it and you do the right thing, because that's what you always do Then you own them, then they are yours forever, and it's just very difficult, I think, with today's society, where people think they are entitled to things that maybe they are not entitled to, and customers are getting more and more challenging, especially if they're dealing with somebody that they think is below them. A lot of people think food service workers are below them. I don't think that.

Sam: 15:22

I've been in food service for 40 years and life has turned out okay for me. I pushed my children into food service because I think everybody should have to work in food service or retail for at least some part of their life so that they get that experience. And you see guys like Mike Roe who talk about trade schools and you don't have to go to college to be successful. I think we've got to understand that there's lots of routes to success College may be one, trade school may be one, food service may be one, Retail may be one, and people that are good at it the sky's the limit. And if you can deliver a great customer experience, I drive through McDonald's probably way more than my wife would be happy with, and I've had some of the best customer experiences at McDonald's and I've had some of the worst customer experiences at McDonald's, and I'm here to tell you it has nothing to do with McDonald's. It has everything to do with who is running that particular McDonald's.

Zack: 16:30

Yeah, and you know Will Gidero, he talks about that and the key is whether you're fine dining, fast food, customer support, technology. Whatever the key, the secret ingredient is caring right, Make it cool to care.

Sam: 16:47

Yes, yeah, it's. You know, it's so important. I mean, I see it in my clients all the time. I'll go into a particular restaurant and things are great. And I'll go into another restaurant and there's a lot of opportunity for improvement. And the brand didn't change. The sign on the front of the building didn't change. What changed was the person that was leading, the person that was choosing and developing the team, and that's where the customer experience can really excel.

Zack: 17:17

Yeah.

Sam: 17:18

Somebody comes into a restaurant and the team members are all excited to greet them and they realize that that's why we're there and that's what we do. That is a direct reflection of the leader.

Zack: 17:32

And you know, something that you said earlier about the guest experience is so true and obviously you know I don't do this podcast to sell ovation but to get the word out there about guest experience. But one of the things that we do at ovation is we will track every single customer piece of feedback based on the phone number, so that way we could see who are those consistent complainers. And this is what I tell people the first time be generous, right. Yeah, absolutely. The second time, make it even. The third time be skeptical, right. And the whole concept is we want to make sure that we're to your point, we're not getting worked over by people who are just like basically stealing from you legally, but you want to make sure that you make it, make it more than right, that first time.

Zack: 18:23

And if you could track it and you could track who's coming in and complaining a whole bunch. It's okay to fire a customer, but you just want to make sure that you're not. You don't fire the customer because you messed up, correct? Or because they have a perception that something went wrong, right, correct. And I think that's where you don't want to take hospitality out of hospitality, but you could utilize technology to enhance hospitality, and that's how we always look at things. Now I know we're about at time here and we didn't get to nearly like a quarter of the things I wanted to talk to you about, because this is such a great conversation, sam. But first of all, who's someone in the restaurant industry that we should be following? Who's someone that deserves an ovation?

Sam: 19:08

Wow, that's a great question. As far as brands go, you know I'd be remiss if I didn't say I think Domino's is knocking it out of the park because I think that Amen. I've never, ever had a bad experience at an in and out.

Zack: 19:29

Oh apparently you've never ordered their fries. Wow, oh sorry, is that too low? I love in and out. It's okay to love their burgers, love their service, love their brand and not love their fries. That's okay, right.

Sam: 19:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it is, and when it comes to in and out, it seems like people go gaga over it, and I think that the food is good.

Zack: 19:54

And but freaking consistent man, super consistent.

Sam: 19:58

I've never been in a dirty restaurant, I've never seen a dirty team member and I've never seen a team member that wasn't happy. And their level of service is out of this world. And obviously Chick-fil-A is known for great service and I think they do a really good job. But individuals, man, I just I can't think of anybody off the top of my head. You got me on that.

Zack: 20:20

Well, we talked about Tim McIntyre. We talked about John Bacon. We talked about Stephen MR Covey. All great people to follow, absolutely they, you know I don't know if Tim has a book, but John's book Let them Lead Stephen Covey's book, trust and Inspire just incredible things and check out their pods as well. So, sam, where can people go? Learn more about you? Get in touch with you if they're interested in bringing you on to do some consulting and leadership development for their team.

Sam: 20:47

So the easiest thing is to just reach out to me via email, and that would be Sam at fousarkonsultingnet. I do have a website, but I'll just. I'll be transparent. My website is awful. It needs to be reworked. I need to get on that Pablo's kids man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been fortunate to be as busy as I can handle, so that's kind of on the back burner, but an email is always the best way to go, specializing in leadership development, the customer experience and anything at all to do with operations when it comes to a pizza restaurant. So yeah, that's how you can get a hold of me. And then my friend who runs better than yesterday consulting Drew Helmholtz. He and I do a podcast called Drew and Sam Talk Training. I think we got 130 episodes out there. One just dropped yesterday and we talk all about the customer experience and we spend a lot of time talking about leadership. That's kind of our sweet spot for that pod. Awesome and pod. That's what the kids are saying now. Right, it's no longer a podcast, it's a podcast.

Zack: 21:52

We don't have time to say podcast. So tired, so tired. It's a pod man. Yeah Well, sam, for filling the minds of the few, to fill the bellies of the masses, today's Ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Given Ovation.

Sam: 22:06

It was my pleasure to say I appreciate being here.

Zack: 22:08

Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationupcom.