From Star Power to Staying Power with Andy Hooper of Hart House

Zack: 0:00

Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by Ovation, a two-question guest feedback platform that gives multi-unit restaurants all the answers without annoying their guests with all the questions. Learn more at ovationupcom. And today I've got a great friend, someone that I've been following for a long time, someone who my first impression was obviously it was digital first, because this gentleman is Andy Freken Hooper, ceo of Hart House, and he's not a one-trick pony. He was president of Anne Pizza, chief concept officer and chief people officer at Cafe Rio, senior director at Burger King. He has been there, done that.

Zack: 0:49

And, andy, my first impression of you in 3D we were at a conference and we had never met before, but you were speaking and I had followed you and I was listening in on your session. I normally don't go to the sessions, but I was like Andy Hooper speak it. I wanna hear this guy. And you asked some question about time, like who has time to do something. I can't remember what the exact question was and I raised my hand and you go, that's cause you've got a million kids, zach, and I was like wait, first of all, the fact that just from connecting on LinkedIn that you knew my name and you knew that I have a whole bunch of kids I was just so impressed and I was like this guy is a people person. If you could remember those kinds of details from just LinkedIn posts. I was shocked by that man. Anyway, I think that goes to the core of like who you are as an individual and that has rung true with every interaction I've had with you since.

Andy: 1:47

Very kind of you. I think there's a certain amount of collective joy and misery in being parents to multiple children. That, I think, just makes it easier to spot that person. Like you can look at them and see that they've got both boundless energy and exhaustion written all over their face. So maybe that was it at the 8 am start that day.

Zack: 2:07

It was just impressive because that's who you are. You're a people, person, man, and one of the things that's really interesting about the position that you're in is, obviously there was a definitive face to and pizza Burger King not so much, café Rio not so much, and pizza has a very well-known, gets out in the news type CEO. But now you're in Hart House, which is named after the guy, kevin Hart. I'd love for you to kind of talk about how do you manage a brand that's so intertwined with an individual? What are the pros, what are the risks that you have to mitigate?

Andy: 2:48

The very first thing that we did as a team when I started working on this was there were a few folks that had been around the hoop with Kevin and the team working on the brand before I joined and I kind of did the requisite like, hey, let's get the team together, let's spend a day off site just kind of diving through the business and kind of the stereotypical strategy session of like, help me learn about the business, let's do a SWOT analysis. And it was like what's the number one strength in the business, kevin Hart. What's the number one weakness in the business, kevin Hart. What's the number one opportunity that the business has? Kevin Hart. What's the number one threat to the business? Kevin Hart.

Zack: 3:21

And it's like, and after breakfast the strategy session was done. There we go. That's why we're done.

Andy: 3:26

I think what we learned, what I learned very quickly because I thought it was a real, like honest assessment of everything about what Hart House could be, regardless of what we were gonna sell.

Andy: 3:36

And what you come to is you actually have to kind of start designing without Kevin even as a part of it at all and almost like you know the game password where, like, you're not allowed to say the word, it's allowed to say everything else that makes you think of the word, but not the word itself.

Andy: 3:53

It was kind of like that where we needed to say, like how would you get somebody excited about coming and having this food, walking into one of our restaurants, if you couldn't use Kevin? And then, once it's strong and it exists on its own merits, then you can use him to amplify, wind up the flywheel, do all of the things that he's possible doing, but it gets about avoiding the temptation of making brand about him. And one of the things we talk a lot about internally is that we don't want him to be Ronald McDonald. He's Ray Kroc. That's a different role in branding. It's been fun, it's an amazing benefit to have somebody with that kind of reach and influence and the key is to really be sharp with the point to the spear about how you're talking about and showing up in the world, so that the amplification that he does on top of it can do something.

Zack: 4:45

We talk about this all the time, where it's about convenience and maybe because it's Kevin Hart that will get people to come in one or two times. But then you ladder up to consistency. If I come in the second time and it sucks, and the first time it was good, I'm like I don't know what I'm gonna get out of this place Totally. I'm only going out to eat two, three times a week and I don't want to waste it on something I don't know. So you've got to nail that middle part, Otherwise all you get is people coming in one time, one time, one time. You can't build a business off of that.

Andy: 5:19

Yeah, and I think it's important to recognize that the more blessed you are in being able to drive trial in your business, the higher the pressure is in making sure that you don't have an off day or an off moment. We've been very intentional about prioritizing the guest experience and making sure that the food was objectively delicious on its own merits, regardless of what it is made of, because then, and only then, will somebody come back. I think if Kevin gets on Instagram and says, hey, I'm doing this thing at this address today, come on by. Like he is going to drive traffic. He's got 180 million followers on Instagram alone. Like that's gonna move people.

Andy: 6:00

But when they come there, they're now looking for something that's not just the novelty of like, because Kevin said so, but like what are the relative merits of that experience? Like, is it good value for the money? Is the restaurant clean? Is the food hot and fresh? Is the restaurant clean and safe? All the things that people look for with convenient, fast, casual or quick service restaurant dining across any concept. Yeah, I think you're right. You could drive trial, but to get the consistency is really about the same fundamentals that it is. It is for every other business in the space you just have to execute.

Zack: 6:32

Exactly, and I think a lot of restaurants will look at a heart house and be like, well, they've got such a big leg up on us, but at the end of the day, a one-time guest is not going to help you out. I like the point of the food has to stand on its own merits and, by the way, I might add, the milkshakes need to stand at their own merits.

Andy: 6:51

They do yeah, when.

Zack: 6:51

I went there, I got two different kinds of milkshakes and I got three different kinds of sandwiches and the nuggets I just like wanted to try it all and I was outside of knowing you, outside of respecting your team, and thinking that Kevin's always been a stand-up, classy guy. The food was good and, as someone who is allergic to milk, but as somebody who also I worked at Friendly's- right, I know, yeah, that's amazing.

Zack: 7:17

Before I was allergic to milk, I was like obsessed with milkshakes and it's something I miss, like what you guys do with your quality of food. It's interesting because you go in there and someone like me who is very much a meat eater I read meat six times, seven times a week and I was really surprised because I went in there and I was like wait, I thought this is all like plant-based stuff. But it's not like your typical vegan warrior of picketing, save the cows and like it's like. After the fact you're like, oh my gosh, that was plant. Are you sure it's good?

Andy: 7:55

I appreciate that. So what you're getting at there, I think, is the difference between appealing to a very narrow set of the consumer base and being genuinely accessible. The irony is like people who want more plant-based options out there in the universe want and need folks to have access to them. The irony is marketing specifically to the virtues of a plant-based diet is not driving broader access in trial. It's just literally preaching to the choir. What's funny is, as a business, none of the management team at our house is entirely plant-based, neither is cabin.

Andy: 8:36

The whole idea behind it is if you had to make food that was delicious on its own merits that just so happened to be made for something else, like what would you do when you weren't just allowed to sell the virtues of plant-based eating and saving cows and saving water and saving the planet all of which, by the way, are true but not necessarily all that motivational for, like, going out to eat. Like I don't want to be shamed into the decisions I make, particularly those that are largely about convenience and pleasure. Like I want to just be able to go and have fun. That whole menu is designed through the lens of, as somebody else who eats meat. Like what would it take for me to choose this over In-N-Out or over Shake Shack or over Chick-fil-A? And I think those are high bars, but bars you have to have if you're going to be broadly appealing in the plant-based space.

Zack: 9:26

Yeah, I think it's great to have a mission and I think it's great to have that mission in the forefront, but at the end of the day, I like Kelly McPherson speaking of Burger King, former CIO of Burger King. She said what we're doing is not rocket surgery. What we're doing is selling food. We're selling burgers. It's like let's get people to feel fed, to feel fulfilled, but not feel guilty about where they're going to go for dinner, because of they came to Hart House for lunch and I think you guys do such a good job of just like, hey, come on in, come in and eat here and be surprised that you'll like it. There's not even that push for the plant-based Cause. Again, you go inside and it's not neon signs flashing of like no cows died here, it's just good food. And so I think that's really, really important to really stress the focusing on the guests and like what their full experience is. And so, with that, what do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays?

Andy: 10:27

It's interesting. I think it's something that you and I have had a conversation about, which is the importance of listening to folks who take the time out to share about their experience with you. There is such richness in the people who have both had that experience and gone through the extra step of sharing that with you in detail. That is kind of overlooked, right, it's an uncomfortable thing, especially as an entrepreneur, to have somebody be like you were off your game today or worse yet have some choice words for you in that Like the easiest thing to do is to want to point to the 90% of the time that's going great and be like this is awesome. And my job as the CEO of the business, of course, is to celebrate good moments with the team and keep their mood elevator in the right spot and keep them going.

Andy: 11:14

But I think the most important thing that's happening in guest experience today is that somebody is taking time out from their post-purchase journey and sitting down and sharing that with you, and when they do, you gotta listen, and I think not enough leaders out there are paying attention to how valuable that is, and I think we were talking about and sharing stats a few weeks ago about when guest recovery takes place. In that scenario the stickiness of that guest and like the LTV of that guest is insane compared to even just a normal guest with a satisfied visit, because that person is showing you that they care enough about your long-term well-being to be able to have you do something to change it. I mean they're telling you like I want to come back. Please give me a reason to come back.

Zack: 12:00

Right and to give some numbers to that, it's like the average guest is a 30% retention rate and, by the way, we can have this discussion six ways till Sunday. I have seen five different companies put out reports and every single company it was 30% or 29%. So the data's out there. 30% is the average retention. They come in once every eight months. They leave a review. About 1% of people will leave a public review, less than that. But if you look at an unhappy guest, they have a 13% retention rate. But to your point, if you respond to them, if you take the time to actually I don't know care I love, we'll get there.

Zack: 12:39

His book Unreasonable Hospitality Love that book. It was just mandatory reading for everyone at Ovation. The retention rate goes from 13% to 68%. That guest will spend $5 more per visit. They don't come in once every eight months. They come in once every 1.7 months and instead of 1% likelihood of leaving a five-star review, there's a 12% likelihood of leaving a five-star review. As we look at those numbers, it's like to your point, andy, as someone who has been obsessed with creating great operational experience, listening is two parts right. Listening is make it right now and then fix it forever. I don't want to keep. If my wife says, hey, stop doing this thing, and then I apologize and then I keep doing that thing, it just shows the insincerity. So it's like you have to have both sides of the guest experience coin of the individual as well as the systemic.

Andy: 13:37

Yep, that's an important point because in service going back to Will's book for a second he makes that very specific distinction between service and hospitality and this difference between the rote memorization of following, listen, apologize, satisfy, thank, the kinds of things that end up codified in large company training manuals.

Andy: 14:02

And I think the big difference, one of the most successful things that the best in the business do, is they do all that training and then they are fully present in the moment and they let their own wisdom lead them to the right solution Instead of following a book. It's the same way that you would with your wife in that example If you're not distracted and you're fully present, you are here now with her. Your wisdom will lead you to the right thing to do to make it right. And that won't always be the same thing. In much the same way that that example that Will uses in the book of serving a dirty water New York City hot dog to a table of people at a three Michelin-starred restaurant that's not going to be in the book, that's going to be by being in the moment enough to be wise enough to say this is going to make a connection for them. I think the most successful tactics are when teams are taught how to be and then allowed to act from that position of health.

Zack: 15:01

I love it. It's the teach me why and show me how, Because I just finished the book Be Our Guest, the Disney Institute, and in there they talk about how there are certain principles that Disney lives by, and the very first principle is guest safety. Now you also look at guest efficiency and the guest experience. But let's say there's a huge line of people and someone comes up to the front of the line in a wheelchair. Are they going to keep the ride going and slow down the line for every single person, just for that one? Yes, because guest safety is above efficiency. When you teach principles in order, it allows to your point. I don't have to come up with a guidebook of a million different things that could happen, because we've trained on how to think through things.

Zack: 15:47

Yeah amazing For a restaurant that we kind of talked about that tactic of training your team. How do you implement a tactic like that? Let's say I've got a restaurant group and I don't quite have that same mission-driven thing of hard house. I don't have a Kevin Hart, I don't have someone as talented as Andy that could come in and teach my business. How do we set the structure? What would you recommend as a first step for that tactic that you just said about training your team?

Andy: 16:16

on the principles, yeah, I think the first step it's like a Star Wars the forces in you already. It's this analogy of understanding that most human beings have problem-solving rubrics that they follow in their life. They don't need somebody necessarily at work to teach them how to solve problems Like they do this in their life already. They have successful relationships in their life outside of work. Chances are they have been through a situation where the guest has been unhappy and they've had to learn from it and resolve. And I think one of the principles that I hold near and dear to my heart, that I've spent a lot of time with over my career, is this analogy that, in the same way that your phone has an operating system to it, as a human being you have an operating system and that human operating system has in it that wisdom that I was just mentioning.

Andy: 17:10

The issue is less about trying to figure out what the specific training tactic is and more about being still enough and being present enough in that moment to have access to that wisdom.

Andy: 17:22

Most of the time when it's like frenetic or I'm stressed out or I'm trying to remember this like nine-step method for guest recovery, it's noise right, it's just too difficult.

Andy: 17:31

But if I just chill out enough and I'm like, okay, I know how to do this. Like what would I do if, or what would I want somebody to do if I was on the other end of the phone and I was having this conversation and you can tell anybody who's ever called any customer service, whether it's for your credit card or your airline or your restaurant or anything else you know, when somebody is dialed in and gets it, I mean we were sharing that example right about a major airline and another major airline and how drastically different the response to the same sort of issue was in your life. And it wasn't a matter of training on steps, it was a matter of somebody paying attention enough to like understand what was happening and make a wise decision about how to better take care of it. And there's no amount of training that can account for that in my mind, other than a culture where that is cultivated. It's less about the tactic and more about the culture.

Zack: 18:31

I love that, and a fish always stinks from the head first, and I think that you do such a good job of portraying that and something that someone told me a long time ago when Ovation was getting started, and I was like, oh man, like I don't know what our core values are. I don't know what our culture is. They're like, zach your core values are the culture. Write down what you care about and bring people in who also want to live life like that, and that's how you get your start. I love that. All right, in last couple of minutes, who is someone that deserves an Ovation? Who's someone that we should be following? Andy?

Andy: 19:05

Ooh, I'll give a shout out to some guys that are here in Washington DC with me. Oh, donald Trump, oh, he's not in DC. I'm gonna shout out Rahul and Sahil from Rasa, this fast, casual Indian restaurant chain based here in DC. They've got four restaurants, but I think very interesting because of the ambition they have to broaden the appeal of Indian food. It's not just the service model, but it's the menu. And the reason I want to give them a shout out is these are entrepreneurs. They've been grinding 10 years now for restaurants, working their butts off. The food's amazing. They're even better humans and because the tiny little regional four unit chain doesn't always get on everybody's radar, I'll use my platform today to give them a shout out.

Andy: 19:54

Love that Another group who you know, five locations, something like that they've been, yeah, growing, working hard, grinding, bringing that flavor profile to folks in a way that sort of feels accessible. And for those that don't know, indian food is this rocket ship of growth, from just a category perspective, in the States, and now that India's population is surpassing China's, I think the influence of that food on the world is only gonna start to accelerate.

Zack: 20:26

Amen, love it. Well, where can people go to learn more about Heart House or read some of your musings?

Andy: 20:33

Yeah. So if they are in Los Angeles, come visit us in our restaurant. We have four of them in Los Angeles County, with more on the way. You can also follow us though every social handle. It's at my Heart House, because there's like a Heart House, that's residence hall in Toronto. That owns the other handle and we thought, rather than fighting them, we would just do our own thing, because we're all about access. So you can check us out, you can follow Kevin, kevin Hart for real on all those handles too, because you'll see a lot of sort of cross posting and integration there, and, of course, can check us out at myhearthousecom too and learn more about the menu and what we're after.

Zack: 21:10

And if you have a hour layover in LAX, get an Uber, zip on over to the one right by LAX, zip back. It's like a five minute drive.

Andy: 21:20

Yeah, in fact, depending on who you're flying if you're flying Delta or United, you can walk there in 10 minutes and walk back and we see a lot of folks do that, carrying their luggage down the sidewalk, walking right past that iconic in and out to Heart House to make their stop.

Zack: 21:34

So Love that, andy, for being a people person that goals are made of. Today's Ovation goes to you. Thank you so much for joining us on. Give an Ovation, appreciate it. Thanks, zach. Thanks for joining us today. If you liked this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question, sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationupcom.