Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast is your backstage pass to the minds of hospitality leaders, innovators, and operators who are redefining what it means to serve. Hosted by Zack Oates, founder of Ovation, each episode dives into real-world tactics and inspiring stories from restaurant pros who know how to create five-star guest experiences—both in-store and off-premise.
From fast casual to fine dining, catering to curbside, learn how to drive loyalty, empower your staff, and deliver hospitality that hits home. Whether you're a restaurant owner, operator, marketer, or tech partner, this podcast will leave you with practical insights and plenty of reasons to celebrate and Give an Ovation.
Give an Ovation: The Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast with Zack Oates
Exploring Mental Health and Leadership in the Workplace with Dan Simons
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Strap in as we journey through an insightful conversation with Dan Simons, Founder and Co-owner of Farmers Restaurant Group. As a leader in the business world, he underlines the importance of striking a balance – pushing employees to achieve their goals while also ensuring their mental well-being is prioritized.
On this episode, you'll learn from Dan about:
- Mental health in the workplace
- Effective leadership and employee advocacy
- Farm-to-table concepts
- More!
Thanks, Dan!
Mental Health and Leadership in Workplace
Speaker 1Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation , the restaurant guest experience podcast , where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five star guest experience . This podcast is sponsored by Ovation , a two question SMS based real time guest feedback platform that helps restaurants measure and improve their guest experience . Learn more at ovationupcom . And today this podcast folks , is three years in the making .
Speaker 1I have been following our guest today for , like I said , over three years . His posts are just so consistently awesome and then finally I got a chance to hear him speak live at Prosper . He gave a great , great session there and afterwards I'm like Dan , we got to get you on the podcast man . So we're really glad to have Dan Simons , the founder and co-owner of Farmers Restaurant Group , based in DC . He's an incredible thought leader and public speaker on topics such as mental health and the workplace , time management and developing individuals . He's also a pickleball enthusiast , so next time you're coming out to Utah , next time in DC , we'll have to get on the pickleball courts and I don't know , are you rated ?
Speaker 2You know what I am hooked on pickleball . I stay away from the ratings talk , but I would be happy to get out there on the court .
Speaker 1Let's see how we do the only thing , dan , I like to do . So there's two things I like in pickleball . One is winning , and the only thing I like more than winning in pickleball is losing , because if I'm losing in pickleball , that means I've got to be getting better , because I'm playing people better than me .
Speaker 2Yeah , and talking , smack and competing and making sure you're stinging people with the ball every now and then . It's fun .
Speaker 1I like that . I know that's what I liked about racquetball a lot Before COVID . I was a big racquetballer and if someone was trash talking or someone was up a couple of points , you just give them a little pelt in the back , yeah there you go , it works .
Speaker 1So also , if you dig around the internet enough , you will also learn another fact about Dan that not only is he like pickleball , but that his pinky toe curls a little bit more under his foot , just like his grandmothers . So the things that you learn about people on the internet are quite interesting . Very true , very true .
Speaker 2We all have a list . We all have a list .
Speaker 1I know honestly , if you're not familiar with Dan Simons , check him out and go check out . He's got some YouTube videos out where he's doing different speaking engagements that are online and just great , great topics . So after you listen to this and you're gonna love listening to this podcast go check that out . So first of all , dan , thanks for coming on the podcast , excited to chat with you and let's dive in . Let's start off with probably the deepest of the topics here . Let's talk about mental health . How do you balance the you gotta do hard things when you're here at this job versus mental health as a leader ? How do you strike that balance with your people ?
Speaker 2For me , those are two entirely separate topics . I come , at mental health , from a very simple place , which is we need humans to do the work . Right , it's about as obvious as it gets . We need humans to do the work . Yeah , sure , this AI , there's computers , there's robots , but for the moment , let's just keep it simple we need humans to do the work . We want humans to be maximally productive . So , whether you're a greedy , solely focused on profit capitalist , or you are like a bleeding heart liberal , all of them are . Those two represent opposite ends of a spectrum , but you know what I mean . Whatever your motive is , you need the people to do the work . So if something is holding the people back from being optimally productive , of course , as a business leader , you'd work on it .
Speaker 2If your software has a glitch , you send the debuggers after it , right , yeah , like , let's get in there and find out what's slowing it down . If you're not pulling your data down from the cloud at an optimized rate , you get the programmers to solve the glitch , and so I want the humans , including myself , to perform at an optimal level . So why wouldn't I try to figure out what the glitch is ? And then why would I complain about the glitch . And if you're running the software company and you're complaining about the bugs in your code , you're a moron . You should be fixing the code . You could never say let's write code without bugs . Doesn't happen , just doesn't happen . Too many variables . So you learn about the glitches once you put the code into a practical situation . So when the humans have glitches , call it what you want Depression , anxiety , ocd , social awkwardness , low self-esteem .
Speaker 2They don't . For me , the mental health label isn't the issue , it's just the human operating system . So telling people , hey , stop complaining , you know there's hard work to be done , misses the point that yeah , there's hard work to be done and I think it's a privilege to be able to come back to work tomorrow and do more hard work . So I do think people need to do the work and you're lucky to have a job , I'm lucky to have a job . So when someone says talking about mental health is soft or like , oh , people do a sort of complain and they want it , I just think they're missing the whole point of don't you want to optimize the humans ?
Speaker 2And I try to use this language in a clinical way to make it not about who's soft and who's tough . You know we've got pro athletes that end their career because of their anxiety . Right , you have guys that can qualify as Navy SEALs , but they can't get past their depression . This is about who's tough and who's not . This is about do you have the tools and the resources and the support to work through , understand your glitches ? Maybe you solve your glitches . Maybe you just get better at being you with the glitch .
Speaker 1So it's a feature , it's not a bug .
Speaker 2Right there you go . I'm good with that .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think that makes that makes so much sense . How do you recommend let's say , you know I'm running a 30 location restaurant chain how do I start to talk about mental health with my team in a way that encourages them to speak up but also doesn't , you know , doesn't make me feel like I'm excusing poor performance .
Speaker 2I laid out a pretty detailed what I call , you know , a playbook for mental health in the workplace , so there's a whole bunch of tactics and steps to it . The first one , though , and I think the simplest answer to your question as a leader , start to tell your own story . I'm not sure there's a person out there that hasn't had some of their own personal or emotional struggle , or that doesn't know someone they care about that has had that struggle right . So I don't know you ever had your heart broken .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2You know , you ever been nervous walking into a room where you weren't sure who was gonna be there ? You ever been nervous before a pitch ? You ever have such nervousness that you don't perform as well as you could have , and then you reflect on it and you kind of beat yourself up . No , I don't .
Speaker 2That fits to me somewhere in the mental health spectrum , and so I think any leader can just start to talk about how they feel and how their feelings affect their own performance . Yeah , so I think you normalize it . You know , you think LeBron never tells his teammates that he had a rough day , right ? Yeah , right , I think Kobe never told anybody about when he was down and had some struggles and the steps he took to get through it . Like to think that the most elite out there , right , venus , serena , kobe , you know , jocko , take a Navy SEAL , take an elite athlete , take any elite performer , and when you talk to them , right , tom Brady , you know , you'd think getting divorced wasn't hard for Tom Brady . Of course it was hard for Tom Brady , right ? You think that a distraction being a parent when one of your kids is sick doesn't maybe interfere with your ability to perform ? Of course it does .
Speaker 2So why don't you just tell the truth as a leader , acknowledge some struggle that you or someone you care about had . You will have a hundred percent agreement . Whether out loud or kept internal to your audience , everyone's human . It is the ultimate common ground between leaders and those who are leading . Is this the reality of the human brain . So I think step one just talk about it Doesn't have to be a huge deal , de-stigmatize it , talk about a normal struggle . Put it out there . I think you'll end up with more loyalty and better performance .
Speaker 1Because when you can humanize yourself right , that's you know , that's where you get the connection , that's where you realize that everyone , to your point in the beginning , everyone has their list of the weird quirks , the weird things about them , the struggles they've been through , the challenges that they're currently facing . You know , it's like every single person . There's a quote I heard where if you treat everyone like they're going through a really hard time , you'll be right most of the time , and I think that includes ourselves . Like we need to remember that invincibility is not a power , you know , and because it's not possible , Right , that's not a real thing .
Speaker 1It's a fallacy . And so when we pretend like we're invincible , all that does is continue the stigma of this mental health . And in my mind , as I think about mental health a lot and I look at you know my question is is there more mental health issues today ? Or are we just an emotionally healthier society when it's okay to talk about it right , whereas before you bottle it up and you just press forward ? Now it's like no , let's talk about it . Let's talk about what PTSD means , let's talk about how you know things have affected you .
Speaker 1And maybe , dan , you and I could go through the same exact experience . For me it may create a really tough experience and that may be one of my like hard things , and for you it may be like a Wednesday afternoon . You're like all right , great , we're doing it right , and I think that's okay , that different people have different perceptions of the same experience . But understanding that , I think , is a beautiful thing , that it's something that we need to embrace and , to your point , start with sharing what's going on in your life . I think it's a great idea .
Speaker 2There's just no downside to creating a higher level of awareness as a leader , so who would argue against that ? Like great , put someone on your show and let's have a debate that less awareness is better than more awareness .
Speaker 2I'll take the more awareness side , please . And so once you're aware of these things about yourself and about your team , you can lead more effectively . It doesn't mean you have to spend all your time on it , but for sure let's dispel this notion that glitches in the system represent some flaw . The toughest among us are elite special forces . You know Marines pick who you want , right . People come back from service and some of them , after traumatic brain injuries and traumatic experiences , have PTSD and some don't . The ones who don't aren't tougher , they just have a different operating system in the brain . And so the right process and support and resources and you can get people to get through the challenge , understand it and create tremendous value for themselves and their community . So more awareness , more talking about it , less stigma , more value , more productivity . In fact , that's why I always go back to more value and more productivity .
Speaker 2I'm a business guy , right . I own a company with $100 million in revenue this year . I've got 1,400 employees . So I'm not in a nonprofit , I'm not just an advocate , I'm actually . I'm a restaurant manager , right , like that is what I do . We build a team , we've got our restaurants , and so I come at this from an operator's perspective of team building , profit creation , staying in business and I've got the math and the data and the P&L and the track record to prove that a higher level of awareness on these topics leads to greater value creation and to a more resilient company .
Speaker 1So let's talk about that , because in the final minutes here , what I'd love to do is understand does the ability to get ? How does improving the employee experience improve the guest experience ?
Speaker 2This is so clear to me that the guests the one thing that all my guests and in our restaurants this week will probably serve 60,000 diners Open seven days a week breakfast , lunch and dinner the one thing that they all have in common they're all human . Mm Okay , super obvious point . So therefore they are all experiencing their own life somehow in a super wide range , but they're all human . So my point is you want to make the guests happy . I just try to see them , love them , look them in the eye . That's what hospitality is Like . I love you . I'm glad you're here .
Speaker 2You could be as angry or dysfunctional or you can't look me in the eye , I don't know . Maybe you got ass burgers , maybe you're depressed , maybe you're just a generalized asshole , I don't know . But for our guests , what we teach and what we try to do , we will look you in the eye , we will see you and we will love you . But you can only give love if you can receive the love . Right . You can only give a legit hug if you're in a really good place to give the hug , receive the hug . So my partner and I , our belief is you know , let's take care of our people so they feel loved and support , and , yes , trained , and , yes , held accountable , and , yes , all of those things , that it's a workplace and so they can care for the guests when they come through the front doors . For me it's that simple , and it starts and ends with that .
Speaker 1I love that , dan , and from you know , interviewing over 250 hospitality experts on this podcast , I've come up with a definition of hospitality which is proving to the guest that you care about them . And I think that it starts , though , to your point proving to your employees that you care about them . And if they , if you care about them and they care about you , then they're going to care about the guests because you care about the guest , and I think that's . That's beautiful . We could sit , man , dan , we could have like 15 podcasts here . This is just like . I feel like we're scratching the surface .
Find Dan Simon's Thought Leadership
Speaker 1Where can people go to learn more about you and get some of your , get some of your thought leadership and also learn about Farmers Restaurant Group ?
Speaker 2So my restaurants are easiest to find at foundingfarmerscom , also at FarmersRestaurantGroupcom , and my stuff is at DanSimonSezcom . Dansimonsezcom and on social media , at , you know , linkedin , whatever the social channels are at DanSimonSez , awesome .
Speaker 1Well for giving us the go ahead to try new things , because Dan Simon says today's ovation goes to you . Thank you so much for joining us on Give An Ovation , Dan .
Speaker 2Thanks so much . Thanks for having me .